2000 Redux

By: Chris Guy
Published On: 8/14/2007 10:28:24 PM

Contrary to popular belief, gatherings like YearlyKos have actually been around for quite some time. In 2000, 15,000 progressives (including celebrities like Michael Moore and Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder) packed Madison Square Garden to decry the influence that corporations and special interests had on the Democratic Party, and argue that the party in general was moving too close to the center. A few months later those 15,000 people went to the voting booths and voted AGAINST Vice-President Al Gore. Voting for Ralph Nader was justifiable, in their estimation, because there really wasn't that much difference between Gore and Bush (Yes, people could actually say that with a straight face).
But now it's almost 2008 and after 8 years of George W. Bush, those progressive/populist Democrats have learned their lesson. Right? Well, yeah....some of them. It seems there are more anti-Hillary diaries than anti-Bush diaries on DailyKos, and the diary title: 28% of Kossacks won't vote for Hillary in the General Election was staring me in the face today in the "Recommended Diaries" section. Now that 28% is hardly scientific, but 20% want Cindy "The Democrats are the party of slavery" Sheehan to run against Nancy Pelosi in a poll that got almost 4,300 votes.

I hope those "Democrats" who refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election will just go ahead and place their vote for Mitt Romney or Fred Thompson or whoever the Republican is. I mean if you're going to throw the election to a Republican anyway, at least spare us the lengthy Supreme Court (which is now more conservative thanks in large part to Nader voters) battle that will ensue.

From 2000:

"The lesser of two evils, you still end up with evil," filmmaker Michael Moore said. "You don't make a decision because of fear: you make it on your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations. ... Follow your conscience. Do the right thing."

the two(Democratic and Republican presidential candidates) have similar views on trade, foreign policy and the war on drugs.

Thomas King, 22, of White Plains, New York.....promised to vote for Nader to send a message. "I'm not too pleased with the fact that Clinton and the new Democrats have moved so close to the center. ... This is a populist movement."

Comments



Huh??? (Donkey Hotay - 8/14/2007 10:35:27 PM)
YearlyKos has actually been around for quite some time.

No it hasn't.  The inaugural YearlyKos was last year in Las Vegas, I was there...they kept talking about how it was only the first of many. What does a Nader rally have to do with YearlyKos conventions 6 years later?

I don't see any connection.

From Wikipedia

The first YearlyKos was held in Las Vegas, Nevada, from June 8 to June 11, 2006. It attracted approximately 1,000 attendees, and featured prominent Democrats such as Harry Reid, Howard Dean, and Barbara Boxer, as well as four possible contenders in the 2008 Democratic primary: retired General Wesley Clark, New Mexico governor Bill Richardson, Iowa governor Tom Vilsack, and former Virginia governor Mark Warner.


Just for the record (Donkey Hotay - 8/14/2007 10:46:22 PM)
"gatherings like" was not in the diary when I wrote the above comment.


Fair enough (Chris Guy - 8/15/2007 2:02:11 PM)
My point is, the Nader rally in 2000 was pretty darn close. Of course I know that YK has only been arounf for 2 years. I also know that DailyKos itself has only been around since 2002.

The people complaining about Hillary at YearlyKos this year sound EXACTLY like those Naderites talking about Al Gore in 2000.



they were not justified (Politicalhack - 8/14/2007 11:32:51 PM)
and they are culpable for all the damage that has been done over the last 7 years.


Jim Webb (mr science - 8/15/2007 1:11:33 AM)
and Joe Wilson both supported George Bush in 2000 which actually makes them even more culpable than any Nader supporter. Funny how Democrats don't make this assertion toward these (or any) x-Bush supporters.


Al Gore (MohawkOV1D - 8/15/2007 12:40:37 AM)
had earned his stripes and deserved to be president.  After all, he did win.  If he'd won TN, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But please explain to me how Hillary has been different than Bush?  She has worked in the US Senate to give Bush everything he's asked for.  SO to actually "change" Washington, I'd have to vote for Thompson.  Right?

I'm just asking.

I suppose someone had to bring up the subject though.  It's a very unsetteling thought to have to make that choice.  NO ONE LIKES HILLARY.  Especially me.

And just a brief heads up - Hillary Clinton will NOT be elected should she win the nomination.  Nor will OBAMA.  So unless we pull a candidate out of our *** looks like it's going to be a Repug.  And thats a fact.

(NOTE TO Edwards - Don't spend campaign money on haircuts dude.  Someone worked hard for that cash.)



real people versus celebrities (presidentialman - 8/15/2007 1:06:48 AM)
Bush won fair and square in 2000, if you're going to include Eddie Vedder.  The Republican Party had the NRA, the Chritian Coalitian. These inturn are getting support from their members. Their members in turn are red state people. The red state people are regular folk. Not that they're right.  This was the silent majority, who rail against Hollywood celebs.  Other than a member of a really rockin band, one that changed society-on the music scene, how is Eddie Vedder representative of regular folk?  Maybe Moore, but, until Howard Dean came along in 2003-04, the Democrats were represented by Al Franken, Barbhra Streisand-Hollywood.  Hollywood entertains, but value wise, it doesn't represent me.  If they're so big on morals, why has it taken a generation for a black person to win, why do celebs go right to divorce court instead of living through the hardships marriage brings-as well as the joys?  Sure Nadar was going to peel of votes from Gore, but you get the government you deserve and many people are either stupid or don't have the time to look at every single politician and what historically third parties do in this country.  Most people remember the 60s and the idealism it had in it and Nadar was sort of a last link to it.

Aside from that John Kerry, the man went windsurfing almost as many times as Bush took vacations.  He knew Americans didn't like the Iraq War, Bush, the Patriot Act, and what does the guy do, He goes skiing and surfing.  There's a reason Kennedy, Clinton, Lyndon Johnson were president, they worked real hard to get there.  Johnson famously couldn't relax.  Kerry thought this was a walk in the park. People said it was Kerry's election to lose and he lost it.  I have friends who voted for Nadar in 2000, they learned their mistake in 2004. And as I just pointed out, the burden of blame should not be weighted on one group.



Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins (Flipper - 8/15/2007 2:38:23 AM)
I almost choked to death on anchoives everytime I saw Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins campaigning for Nader in 2000.  And the morning after election night 2000, all I could think about was whether or not they understood the damage they inflicted on this country by supporting Nader. 

But in 2008, I don't worry about the loony left stating on Dailey Kos that they won't vote for Hillary.  I worry about independents and swing voters across the country who are hostile towards her candidacy.  Independents and swing voters make up a large number of voters who state they won't vote for Hillary under and circumstances (46% in the latest Rasmussen poll) or who have an unfavorable opion of her (48% in latest Rasmussen poll).

If Dems nominate her, we will have an electoral disaster on our hands.



Maybe.... (mosquitopest - 8/15/2007 6:11:34 AM)
If enough people start voting their values...then instant run off voting will become a reality and we will end up with more choices.

As it is...there is NO WAY that I'm voting for the candidate who is supported by the large corporations and the corporate media.  In other words...I will NOT VOTE for Hillary Clinton.

Kucinich and Edwards are my first choices as far as the Dems go...Obama is a possibility for a vote for me but he's a distant third.

Hillary has been bought and paid for ...and the corporate media is behind her all the way....

Things like a universal national health insurance plan will never come to fruition under Hillary Clinton....and the Clintons have always supported FTA.....So IF the Dems want to lose many of the progressives they will continue make sure that Hillary is their candidate.

Buzz...Buzz...



Okay, but don't complain (True Blue - 8/15/2007 1:36:38 PM)
When President Thompson appoints two more conservatives to the Supreme Court and women lose the right to choose.


If President Thompson appoints 2-3 more (Lowell - 8/15/2007 1:51:55 PM)
Supreme Court nominees, we're going to lost a LOT more than a woman's right to choose. 


Again (Chris Guy - 8/15/2007 1:56:31 PM)
you sound EXACTLY like someone describing Al Gore eight years ago.