You don't play chicken with a sadistic sociopath.

By: thaddaeus toad
Published On: 5/22/2007 10:26:12 PM

While I share the chagrin and perhaps the outrage at the feckless seeming of the Democratic leadership, I feel that living to fight another day better serves the interests of progressives.

The sad fact of the matter is that Bush would leave the troops over there to die without any money. He would not begin to remove them even while knowing that their funding had run out. And it would be irresponsible to knowingly leave the troops unfunded at the hands of a delusional Commander-in-Chief.
Another sad fact is that we could not count on enough Republican votes to force our timetable and benchmarks and standards through. That fact says more about the President, and his Republican allies, than it does about the Democrats. In fact, the only thing it says about Democrats is that we need more of them!

Yes the leadership kicked the can down the road. That is disappointing.

But it is the wisest move politically and it prevents the GOP from foisting responsibility for this policy off on its opponents. By September it would be hard to imagine that what sits in the mind of the American people will be the fact that Democrats lost this battle. The reality is that they are powerless to stop the President because of his allies in Congress.

It is not the fault of Democrats that our Constitutional system has limits.

Were it not that Bush and the Republicans are so divorced from reality, are so craven, are so stubborn that they insist on pursuing neither a policy for victory nor a strategy that enables our exit, we would have the votes to implement a timetable and a shift in focus toward the political reconciliation that must take place to make any military effort lasting.


Comments



I don't contribute much (thaddaeus toad - 5/22/2007 10:27:51 PM)
but this time, I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.


I think you are right, unfortunately (Dianne - 5/23/2007 8:00:07 AM)
We don't have the votes and the Republicans are their usual blind loyalists. 

So the only thing that the Democrats need to do at this point is to loudly slap this war on the Republicans back(forget Bush...he's delusional).  The Republicans are up for election. 

HEADS UP:  The drum beat(s) out of this fiasco for Democratic candidates should be--

1.  The Republicans support BUSH'S WAR.
2.  The Republicans are ARROGANTLY IGNORING the will of the people to start to get out of Iraq.
3.  The Republicans, through their support of the war, are spending/gouging the American taxpayer by paying mercenary contractors outrageous dollars to do the same work that our underpaid soldiers do.
4.  The Republicans, through their support of the war, have the blood of the fallen and maimed on their hands.

and on and on and on.  "This is a Republican thing....."
 



Very true (Pain - 5/23/2007 8:44:57 AM)
I'm getting sort of tired of all the BS on both sides, so just give the war back to the Republicans and move on with the rest of the democratic agenda.  Lets get something accomplished for crying out loud.

The war will require more funding in 4 months, so whats the big deal if there is no timetable in this wad of cash?  In 4 months the Democrats should just say "tough break", guess your surge idea sucked, eh?



Very well stated. (phriendlyjaime - 5/23/2007 9:48:28 AM)
And like I have said before, you really should post more often.

Guys, the reason this diary is important is bc the message needs to be in our heads and mouths.  The Republicans are tripping over themselves to crow about the Dems "cave" and "retreat" from their promise.  This is THEIR PARTY'S FAULT, and I will repeat it over and over again.



Yes, it is 100% the Republicans fault (Lowell - 5/23/2007 10:29:25 AM)
They got us into Iraq, they are keeping us there. Period.

Now, I agree with another commenter that Democrats should "move on," so to speak, and complete the rest of their agenda.  Then, let's elect a Democrat to the White House in 2008 and start moving carefully, but as expeditiously as possible, out of Iraq...



We worked hard (MohawkOV1D - 5/23/2007 11:40:33 AM)
and elected these morons for one reason.  Now they've folded before the fight has even begun.  Next election, F'em.


Just one reason? (LT - 5/23/2007 2:19:40 PM)
Don't know about you, but I voted Dem for a number of reasons, chief among them the rampant R corruption in my home state of OH. As for the next election, that strategy would guarantee R dominance and that is UNACCEPTABLE! If 'f'em' is your attitude, then we'll ALL be hurting for generations, and I'll be damned before I let that happen.


I couldn't agree more. (Lowell - 5/23/2007 2:23:44 PM)
"F'em" is simply an argument to vote Republican.  To the extent that Dems haven't accomplished everything they wanted, you can blame a) Bush; b) Bush; and c) the fact that Dems barely - if that - control the Congress. 


No, F'em (MohawkOV1D - 5/23/2007 8:46:03 PM)
means F the spineless little weasel Democrats that are running around looking for "comity", compromise, and then caving in when the going gets tough.

This is one instance where "its Bush's fault" isn't going to wash.

No one said that being in the majority was going to be easy or without consequences.  But those that are now becoming democrat apologist are just as foul and disgusting, transparent, and lame ass as the republican/Bush apologist we have had to suffer with.

Now, who didn't understand that with victory comes great responsibility.  Seems like Reid and Pelosi have forgotten already and go right back to the old way of doing business.

This "compromise" is nothing short of telling those of us who put them back in the majority to F'off till 08.  So I say F'em right back and keep up the pressure and make it known there is no political middle ground on this issue.  Stand up for those who stood up for you!



What a difference a day makes (MohawkOV1D - 5/24/2007 5:08:23 PM)
24 little hours!!

Looks like the "capitulaton" bill is becoming more unpopular by the minute. Even KOS and most other lefty blogs are raging mad over this.  And here you are on the wrong side again!



Actually, it will come up again in the fall. (beachmom - 5/23/2007 7:34:37 PM)
We'll see where more centrist Dems like Webb are, and where more moderate Republicans are at that time.  Then, I think we need to go through this process again.  This will be a long fight. 

It's not capitulation, but just the end of the first round.  It is not "victory" for Bush.  This war is a victory for no one.



i agree with this title (littlepunk - 5/23/2007 10:40:03 AM)
that's why jack bauer didn't want to make the exchange with his father.  because he was a sociopath.


ha ha.. (Terry85 - 5/23/2007 12:04:50 PM)
Nice picture, whoever added that on.

Anyway, like I said in my comment to this post over at WOS, I can't help but think that the Democratic leadership INTENTIONALLY wrote in the ability for George Bush to "waive" the benchmarks, so that when he does (and we all know he will not hesitate to do so), the media will be *all* over it -- making him out to be an utter fool all over again.



I think you're absolutely right. (thaddaeus toad - 5/23/2007 12:37:10 PM)
The only way we get a bill with timetables and benchmarks is to have 16 Republican votes.

They trumpeted the so-called September moment of truth.  And so Reid and Pelosi are calling their bluff.

"September you say?  Fine, try standing with the President in September, when the inevitable failure of this tiny surge is evident."  All 11 of the Republicans who had the little "Presidential intervention" will be hard-pressed not to stand with us.

They have two options: give us the votes to force the benchmarks OR face the 2008 elections having been on the wrong side of reality.

One caveat though:  Even if we overrode a Bush veto on troop standards or timetables, I have a feeling he would attach a signing statement reasserting his delusional theories on Article Two and his own inherent power.  And then defy the legislation.

Another caveat is that Republicans have a history of spending money on wars that Congress has expressly told them not to:  Witness Nicaragua.  So even a cut-off in funding wouldn't necessarily prevent a determined Dictator from laundering money from other appropriations to the war.

The only way we end this war before Bush's term does is by impeachment.  Since that is a non-starter, we should get well Politically in the mean time.

Sorry to be so cynical.



Agree with you 100% (DanG - 5/23/2007 12:33:12 PM)
I want this war over as soon as humanly possible, but I'm not hanging our troops out to dry.  As long as our Commander-in-Chimp insists on keeping them over there, we should protect them. 


Well Stated (norman swingvoter - 5/23/2007 12:58:51 PM)
In my opinion bush is the kind of person that can't admit to a mistake.  Therefore, bush will not leave, because to do so, he will have to admit to his failings. His last hope is that, if we just stay long enough (years, decades), we will somehow win.  Unfortunately in the real world this philosophy usually leads to diaster. I have read and heard that the Iraq parliament is planning on taking a 2-month vacation this summer.  If it does, I guarantee you that there will be a lot more votes supporting the Democrats in the fall.


Bush's defiance (Shenandoah Democrat - 5/23/2007 2:01:35 PM)
I assume you all have seen reports of the second surge that may mean as many as 200,000 troops in Iraq by year's end, and twice as many combat troops as the year previously. You can read about it here: http://thinkprogress...
No wonder the chimp-in-chief doesn't want to accept the troop preparedness and required home time provisions in the original authorization bill. By the end of the year the public isn't just going to totally POed at the Republicans. But our army will be held stretched to the breaking point, which is nearly the condition it's in now. The we'll have a few hurricanes and the rescue trucks will be in Kirkuk.


I support Reid/Feingold, but it needs 67 votes in the Senate (beachmom - 5/23/2007 7:28:31 PM)
When it gets 67 votes it overrides the presidential veto, and incidentally, is supported by some Republicans, too.  I only support getting out of Iraq with a plan -- which means giving a year deadline before funding shuts down.  This also gives the Iraqi government time to plan for our leaving.  And, of course, the diplomacy Webb has spoken of eloquently.  And it needs to be overwhelmingly supported by the American public with all Democrats (yep, Webb, too) voting for it, plus peeling off Rs, too, like Warner.

I think the day will come when this happens.

But as far as the "compromise" goes, this was to be expected.  We. don't. have. the. votes.  But this is just Round 2, and there will be more rounds in the future.



thaddaeus, you're a big hit on Democratic Undergound ! (beachydem - 5/23/2007 7:48:57 PM)
http://www.democrati...

xposted ya with full attribution to you and RK.  Hope you don't mind, but it's made the Greatest Page with more than 5 votes.



This is ridiculous and manipulative (IechydDa - 5/24/2007 12:39:04 AM)
The very idea that our troops will literally run out of money and have to lob stones and steal gasoline is the very reason we LOST this pivotal vote. Why are we perpetuating this Republican myth to rush us like lemmings further off the Iraqi precipice?


You're missing the point (Catzmaw - 5/24/2007 7:37:39 AM)
Thaddeus is saying that Bush would not hesitate to cut off the funds to make his point about the timelines.  By taking out the timelines the Dems have put the ball in his court.  This is only a 4 month funding provision.