my reading of the new Virginia law in question is that a "person under the direct supervision of the law-enforcement officer" can continue to carry out undercover operations.  Which throws it right back to Attorney General McDonnell, who can and should be providing assistance to those who are investigating illegal activities.  Why wouldn't he do this?  Hmmmm...

1.) The VCDL is not a "Gun Lobby".  It is just as the title states Virginia Citizens Defense League.  Not affiliated with the NRA or the GOA.  The VCDL does not make campaign contributions.

2.) The "raffle" was to raise money for a legal defense fund to help the accused Gun Shops targeted by Bloomberg.

3.) There is nothing rogue about these gun dealers.  There have been no charges brought, or charges filed.  There have only been empty accusations.

4.) I usually am amazed by the hypocrisy of the neocons however, on this issue, RK has now shown that hypocrisy isn't reserved for the wing nuts.

5.) The Gun Dealers are following ALL the laws on the books.  It is Bloomberg who has broken the law.  VA law.

6.) The whole Bloomberg "gun sting" has received a "cease and desist" order from the BATFE and is under review by the FBI.  Bloomberg may very well be charged with a federal crime.

7.) Isn't Bloomberg a Republican?

8.) Fairfax Supervisor Penelope A. Gross (D-Mason)- "County officials can't deny a meeting permit simply for political reasons", Gross said.  "I agree with the governor. It is wrong, but help me find a way to put a stop to it," Gross said. "There is none. I tried."

Unbelievable!!!

...they shouldn't be worried about private investigators coming into their shops.

if we're not breaking any laws?  FBI "sneak and peak" party at your house?

A reasonable Republican, sadly a dying breed in America.

What are you talking about?  I strongly support cracking down on gun dealers who violate Virginia gun laws.  Where's the hypocrisy?

Virginia's gun laws, as does the majority of Virginians according to SurveyUSA.

Where's the crime?

No evidence of a crime has been produced.

...all Virginia gun shops follow the letter and the spirit of the laws of Virginia in all cases?  Regardless, what's wrong with having law enforcement officials or private investigators checking them out to see what's going on?

no problem.

To my knowledge those are the only ones that have jurisdiction

The BATFE and State Police have agents that visit giun shops on a weekly basis to review inventory, sales (Form 4473) and record keeping.  FFL holders are required to preserve records for 25 years.  If you have an FFL then this is the cost of doing business.

You either follow the law or you lose your business.  No exceptions!  The business is what pays the bills and puts food on the table.  Why would someone risk it.  So yes I say that the incidence of "crime" by a gun store owner (FFL) are very, very, small.

Let NY City waste its money if they want to, right?

to be so wealthy that you have no fear of law suits.  Only one of the 9 Gun Shops targeted by Bloomberg folded under presure, and went out of business.  Not because of any guilt, but they were financially unable to respond to the threat of a law suit.

So let NYC and its merry band of morons bring law suit after law suit against legitimate VA businesses?  Let them shut down businesses that are protected by and operate under VA and FED law?

Where did you get your sense of justice?

statistic?

on one side or the other.

In Virginia, four dealers have been targeted.  Under crushing pressure from Bloomberg:

-- one has settled (Cole's in South Boston)
-- one has closed their doors forever (Patriot Services in Richmond)

Just spoke with the former owner of Patriot Services - he did indeed close up shop.  Look up his 804 number if you wish.

Well you can tell those gun nutty mofo's to get their gun raffle out of my backyard...they can go use the guns out in the forest where they may have something to shoot...in the middle of this bustling suburb, what the hell are they doing?

I'm sorry but fuck those idiots, as a Mason District resident, and as a Mason District Democratic Committee Member (who meets in that very same building) the last thing I want is people to get guns through a RAFFLE!?!?!?!

I have a Keep it to yourself policy on guns, if you have them fine, "Keep them to your damn self," but if you're going to flaunt guns and not treat them as the dangerous objects that they are, and instead treat them like door prizes in a raffle, I'm sorry, get the hell out of my neighborhood with your gun-nuttitude.

They are not doing anything illegal, they are not "giving" a gun to any one, the gun still has to be picked up at a gun shop and all paperwork has to be done including a background check, before the person can receive the gun.

The raffle was to raise money for a legal defense fund to help those gun shops tageted by Bloomberg.

People who qualify to "win" the gun already are patrons of the gun shops that are offering the prizes.

A free people can meet in any public meeting hall.  If you can stop them from meeting would you also limit "other people" from using the building THEY pay for?

Hypocrisy smells so fresh after you step in it!!!

First of all, if you're supporting gun shops who are selling guns illegally, you're a loon.

Second of all, I support the legislation because I don't think NYC should be invading our soveriegn state without our permission.

Third, if it weren't for Dillon's rule, we'd have a gun-ban in this part of the state I promise you.

Fourth, yes free-people can meet at a public meeting hall, and if they live in Fairfax County then yes of course they paid for it, its their right to use it.  But I still think they are a bunch of gun-nutty whackjobs who need to keep their overly obsessive love for guns to themselves, and not flaunt it.  As much as I hate guns, I don't go out and have gun destruction parties where we destroy guns to raise money to oppose them, that would seem to be almost too childish, much like having a raffle.

What is a straw purchase?

Can you tell the intent of every customer that walks in your store?  Gun dealers are very discriminating folks, but no one is a mind reader.

The charge of a straw purchase is a very subjective and difficult charge to prove.  What signals did the gun purchaser send that his "intent" was to resale or give the gun to someone else?

Thats why I believe that there ARE NO CHARGES in this case.  I don't support any illegal activity, by anyone, but most especially in the Gun community, of which I am a part.

So far as I can tell I haven't supported anyone who is doing anything illegal.  But you speak as if these allegations by Bloomberg were an absolute fact.  Hope you're never on a jury.

I have to say, the video I saw on ABCnews of the people buying guns showed that one person paid for the gun and took it, while another person filled out the form for the person buying the gun.  That doesn't seem suspicious to you? 

You're right, no one is a mind reader, so I'm sure you support a test for guns, to make sure people who are buying guns know all about the safety necessary to use it.  We have tests to graduate school, tests to drive a car, tests to get jobs, why not have tests to make sure the people buying guns are knowledgeable about the laws and rights of Virginia gun owners.  I think having a test that would require people to study and pass would make it much less likelier that crazy people would get those guns.

Also, I think we should bring the assault weapons ban back.  10 years of declining crime rates during the years after it was enacted I'm sure were helped by less deadly weapons on the street.

was in Virginia?

In so far as safety is concerened - before you can obtain a hunting license, or a concealed weapons permit, you have to show that you have received training:  military service, hunter safety course, civilian marksmanship program etc.

To take these courses, you first have to have a gun.  Chicken or egg.

What is an assault weapon?  What features of a firearm make it BradyLand approved, or an evil fear inducing scary assult weapon?

The Clinton Assault Weapon Ban, was a ban in name only as it mostly banned features of a weapon such as a flash hider, a bayonet mount, telescoping butt stock, or vertical grip.  So what one of these features caused a rifle to be less deadly?  Perhaps if all rifles were painted pink, they wouldn't be quite so scary.

How many crimes have assault weapons been used in?  What percentage of gun crimes are commited with an
"assault weapon"?

I doubt that in forming your opion that you have considered the answers to these questions.  The truth would take the wind out of your sails.

These guns have no place in hunting, unless of course you feel like ending up with a scarred carcass that barely resembles what the animal once was.

And as for the hunting stuff, I trust hunters to be good stewards of guns, they know guns.  I'm saying, to get a GUN you need NO test, to be a hunter you do, don't you find that the least bit strange? 

As for my opinion on Assault weapons, let's see:

The D.C. sniper used a high-powered sniper rifle to kill a bunch of people in this area.  Why do hunters need high-powered sniper rifles to hunt, are they too lazy to actually try to put some skill into it?  So maybe getting rid of those types of guns would be a good idea.

The nutcase who attacked Sully Station with an AK-47 killed two cops with his rifles, so maybe banning those would have been a good idea too.

The Virginia Tech killer had high-quantity bullet clips for his pistol that he bought on EBAY that were apparrently illegal under the old assault weapons ban.

Hmmm....

So there's three peices of anecdotal evidence for just our area.  I'm sure there's plenty more everywhere in the country.

have to do with owning a gun?

First let's dispel a few myths:

The Geneva Convention BANS military ammunition that causes "malicious wounding".  That is why military weapons use "Ball" (Full Metal Jacket) ammunition.

So while I am very sad that someone like the DC Snipers used a Bushmaster XM15-es (AR-15) for their killing spree, the two people that survived (the kid at the school and the man at the Denny's) should be thankful that the Sniper used Military Surplus ammo (Russian Surplus Ammo to be exact).  Those victims of the sniper who were not shot in the head, survived.

That same gun, the Bushmaster, is too small to be used for hunting.  VA law forbids it as it would cause undo pain and suffering to an animal.  Why?  Because the ammunition it fires makes a very small wound.

Now, if the DC Sniper had actually been using a "Sniper" rifle, those people would have been DRT (dead right there).  And those that had been headshot would no longer have had a head or a face.

What is the difference between a real "Sniper" rifle and a hunting rifle?  Nothing!  Same gun actually.  A Remington 700 PSS or 700P LTR in .308 (7.62/51mm).  The 700P LTR (700 Police Light Tactical Weapon) is a standard issue SWAT Sniper Rifle.  Also a very popular hunting rifle.

Now, lets be clear, so-called assault weapons, are modeled after military weapons, correct? Military weapons must comply with the Geneva Convention, correct?  So why is it that so many people think that a so called "assault weapon" can shoot down the space shuttle, or knock satellites from the sky?

Ignorance, and fear!  As usual.

So, as I asked before, what features of the Assault Weapons Ban would have saved these people?

None!

But let's not ruin a really good urban myth.

Yours is the position that's saying...hey...your life is worth the risk...

I'm not really wanting to...ya know...chance it.

my life is worth protecting.  Yours is the position that's saying ..hey...I trust the government to protect me.

I'm not really wanting to...ya know...chance it.  After Katrina and all.  Ya know!

So a gun would protect you from what exactly...

Hoards of starving people looking for water and food for their dying relatives? 

As for the governemnt, I don't trust George Bush to protect me one bit, I'm just not paranoid to think giant hordes of people are going to come and raid my house.  Seems like a little paramilitary militia madness syndrome there.  Got a bunker and Y2K leftovers to go with it? 

Sounds like you're living in fear too.  Its nice to know that at least I can disagree with you on that.  I don't want to live my life in fear always wondering what's around the corner.  Rather just live it.

but secretly intends to convey the item purchased to another person.  I don't get your hysteria over prosecuting those who would circumvent our laws by acting as straw purchasers.  Heck, every 16 year old kid who ever talked an adult into buying him beer has essentially enlisted the adult as a straw purchaser.  Facilitators of outlawed behavior are prosecuted under the Virginia Code.  Don't know why it's different when a gun shop owner who KNOWS better engages in such behavior.  It sounds as if the undercover camera shots are pretty damning, as would be necessary in order to make the case beyond a reasonable doubt.  Sorry, the shop owners who got stung get no sympathy from me, although I share your concern about law enforcement officials from another jurisdiction coming down here and conducting an investigation with no heads-up to our guys.  That's just disrespectful and technically illegal given their lack of jurisdiction here.

I was reading a British paper online the other day, a story about some British kid who was shot for his X-Box.  Someone in the story said --

"Nothing like that has ever happened here.  It's not like it's America."

Private law abiding citizens are forbidden to own firearms.  So how did this person get shot?

The fact that guns are outlawed in GB means there is relatively little gun violence - and that the British are shocked when it does happen as opposed to expecting it to happen as they do for America.

The question isn't whether ALL gun violence can be stopped via gun laws or gun registration/management (it can't), it's how much the frequency is effected.

Since GB outlawed gun possession by private citizens, overall crime has sky rocketed:  incidences of forceable rape, strong arm robery, assault and battery are at an all time high. The use of guns in crime is also up over the past 5 years.

It is "perceived" that gun vioolence is nearly non existant, but that is a false hood.

American culture has nothing to do with the mess that is GB.

Do you have a source?

Nobody's talking about anything even remotely close to "outlaw[ing] gun possession by private citizens."  The issue here is gun shops that might be violating Virginia's existing gun laws, nothing more/nothing less.  Nice try at changing the subject, though.

By the way, I support the right to bear arms, within reasonable limits determined by Congress, the courts, and society as a whole.  (e.g., obviously, we don't let private citizens fly around in armed F-16s)

I replied to a comment by an RK reader.

You know, there is NO differrence between this "Gun" argument and the "Voter Fraud" argument the wing nuts argue.  Same same.

Democraps (wing nut for democrat) vote early and often, dead people vote in every election, ...........

Same thing, different fanatic.  I've had six years of republican "if we don't ... then the terrorist's win" BS and 25 years of "Guns are evil" from liberals.  Enough already.

I get to determine who my enemies are, and how to protect myself, my family, my property.

But the Republicans certainly have been arguing the past 6 years that "if we don't ... then the terrorist's win."  There's no equivalence here.

As far as voter fraud is concerned, in recent elections it's been overwhelmingly in the direction of Republicans.  Now, back in the days of LBJ and the Daley machine, it was a different story, but that was a looong time ago in a galaxy far far away. :)

I happened to see the gun raffle story on Channel 4 tonight.  There, tearfully protesting the raffle, were the parents of two of the slain Va Tech students (Mary Read of Annandale and Reema Samaha).

I think the gun raffle organizers are going to regret pulling their in-your-face stunt in Fairfax County.  I think this could be the start of something.  Remember Carolyn McCarthy?
http://en.wikipedia....

Anyway, I guess it is ok now to talk about Va Tech and gun control in the same breath.