Thanks for the update, Lowell, but now I feel worse than ever for Phillip Thompson - didn't realize he spent the night in jail, didn't know he has four felony counts being considered against him today.

Phillip's such a perfectionist and can be his own worst critic, especially under these kinds of circumstances.

Most importantly, Phillip is a friend of mine.

Good luck, pal...

Steve

about finding a local attorney, too, one familiar with the Superior Court ins and outs.  Maybe you can tell your friend.

My thoughts and prayers for Phil Thompson today.

was to go out and find him an excellent attorney with extensive experience in the DC Superior Court.  This is the type of case which screams for negotiations with the prosecution to try to achieve a fair result. 

Tell Phillip to stop kicking himself and just take it one day at a time.  There are thousands of people out here pulling for him.  This was a terrible mistake, but no one died and the only one who got hurt was Phillip. 

Jebus!!!  Unbelieveable!!!

for the sarcasm?  I see nothing in Catzmaw's comment that justifies it.

Yeah, no one died and he didn't hurt or threaten anyone and his actions were clearly unintentional.  He's probably suffering the torments of the damned for having made this mistake and he's facing the ruination of his life and career, but you just want to hammer on him unmercifully.  Must be difficult to be so damn perfect.

Lowell,

Sarcasm, yes a little. I was trying to impress upon CATZMAW how serious this situation is for Mr. Thompson (see the original thread).  No, no one died, but for Phillip this is a very serious situation.

And now (in this thread) I'm accused of "hammering on him unmercifully".

Someone is OFF THEIR MEDS.  And it isn't me.

Anyway, God Bless Phillip!  I wish him the best!

You don't need to "impress" upon me the seriousness of the charges.  I've been defending criminal cases in the state courts for 20 years.  I'm well aware of the seriousness that attaches to criminal charges and have watched clients and their families to through agony.  You have absolutely no idea how much human misery I've witnessed so why don't you just take back your snide remark?

Go back and read my post - to whom did I address it?  Wasn't it Phillip himself?  You think Phillip needs to be reminded again how serious this is when he had all night to sit in one of DC's dank, nasty cells to think about it?  When you take someone like Phillip, whose entire life has been about honor and duty and getting the job done, and accuse him of serious crimes and lock him in a jail cell, do you have any idea how hard a guy like that will be on himself for "putting everyone through this"?  The more honorable and upstanding and responsible the individual the harder he falls when he screws up.  The humiliation and self-recrimination can be extraordinary and very damaging.  Add to that Phillip's public position as Webb's body guy, and the fact that it was his very public friend and employer's weapon, and you have a recipe for severe self-recrimination.  Phillip needs support right now.  You profess support but you accuse me of being a nut for calling you on your relentless theme of making Phillip "understand" the situation, as if he's too freaking dumb to do it without your help. 

Well, how can I say this?  Only one way, I guess.  Mohawk seems to be a snide little prick who has taken some perverse pleasure out of this story.  His comments on another thread were insulting to Webb's honor and now he's decided to seek more attention with sarcasm. I've never troll-rated anyone in my life and I won't now because I'm assuming we're dealing with a college sophomore who hasn't learned a damned thing about real life. Mohawk should engage his brain before he starts typing, but maybe he wants attention, even if it's negative. 

This incident is a shame, but things like this happen, and there no blame to place when something unfortunate when an accident happens.  In a normal courtroom, this matter would be cleared up pretty quickly and the justice system is flexible enough in most circumstances to deal with these sort of problems. 

I was on jury duty recently and most of the time, officers of the court work pretty hard trying to cut deals to avoid trials.  I hope the same thing can happen here.  It would not be justice if such a fine man was ruined by such an unfortunate mistake.

Wow, I've never been called this many things even on conservative Pro Gun forums when I defend Jim Webb.

Thanks for the hostile-totality!!

that the gun was not jim webb's gun.

that's what Jim Webb said in his press conference -- that he didn't give Thompson the gun, contrary to Thompson's original statement. He didn't make much song and dance about it, he stressed his friendship with and trust in Thompson front and center, he freely admited he carries... But he also disavowed the idea that the gun Thompson carried was his. He couldn't say much more before the hearing, obviously, but that tidbit was strange.

Also strange was that Webb has been away since Friday and Thompson got arrested on *Monday*. I've read (on other progressive blogs) that the timeline was: Thompson drops Webb off at the airport, Webb hands him the gun before getting through the airport security check, Thompson puts in in the briefcase and heads back to work, forgetting it's there... That might have been quite believeable. But the gap -- Friday to Monday -- gives it a "funny" feeling.

WashPo has several sidebar stories and, while each one adds very little to the the original version, they do flesh it out a bit. I still would like to hear more on what really happened...

Senator Webb just issued a statement in response to Thompson's arrest. It pretty much says that he's known Phillip for a long time and has a high opinion of him.

for it, but Webb's doing the right thing to refuse comment.  No attorney wants to have the case tried in the press with all the friends and relatives of the accused putting in their two cents.  Webb is a possible witness and every word he utters about this matter can affect the course of the case, so he's doing the wise thing, and possibly at Phillip's attorney's request.

Best to let Phillip's attorney operate behind the scenes and see what kind of offer he can draw from the prosecution.  Would love to know who the attorney is.

According to a Fox News report, Phillip's attorney is Richard Gardiner.

Hope this helps...

Steve

this stuff does happen. Last month I took a pocket knife in a backpack on an airplane. It lodged in a fold or something and they didn't see it on the x-ray.  I didn't know it was in there, but they did see it on the way home though. Something like that is what probably happened to Phillip.

holding some merchandise in my hand.  I was halfway out the door when I realized I was holding the item.

Some days the brain just gets befuddled.  Once I put my wallet in the refrigerator upon coming home from work, on a really hot, humid DC day.  Took me a while to find it.

Generally I find this blundering behavior happens when I'm really working hard on something mentally.  I think this is why we have the term absent minded professors.  Being in a new job, with key votes coming up, is just the thing to cause forgetfulness.

I don't see how you can compare a small pocketknife with a loaded gun and two ammunition clips. I don't see how it is possible to forget such a thing. It certainly NOT ought to be possible. Jim Webb may be at ease with guns, be knowledgeable about guns, be completely comfortable with guns around his house and person, but he also knows the harm and damage they can do. Or he OUGHT to know. To treat a dangerous weapon in such a casual and cavalier fashion defies understanding.

Yes, I am very disappointed in our Senator. The worst part is that this incident has taken attention away from the Hagel-Webb Bill and other important issues.

No, I take that back. The worst part is the hypocrisy exhibited by my fellow progressives and liberals on this board and others. If a Republican had committed such a mistake, we would have been all over him, and rightly so. But because he's our guy, it's okay? Nonsense! He screwed up and he should be held to account for it.

and wait until ALL the evidence and facts are in before you start talking about your disappointment in Webb.  Now it's beginning to sound like a true mixup that had its genesis on Friday.  And it's obvious that any forgetting that happened wasn't by Webb, who was on a plane to New Orleans, but by someone else. 

Jim Webb was NOT the person holding the weapon - and wasn't even there.  You have no information to suggest Senator Webb did anything wrong.  Your comments are nothing short of slander against Senator Webb, assuming you understand all the facts.

As far as the Senator's aid is concerned, he made an error in judgement.  I think he knows that as well as anyone else does.  I take him at his word that he simply forgot that he was holding the weapon.  It happens in busy people's lives.  I think the judge/DA/and jury (if it gets that far) will consider all the facts here. 

If I were the judge I would order him to take gun safety classes and speak to kids about safety.  Punishment beyond that would be a miscarriage of justice.

Just to conclude, the Senator can't be held responsible for this.  He wasn't even there!!! 

from Webb and Phillip's comments so far, it appears that Webb either gave his loaded weapon to an aide (not Phillip, by his own account) or left it in a car for three days. I'm sorry to say it, but either act is irresponsible in the extreme. Did the aide--whoever it was-- have a CCW permit? What if that aide had been mugged? What if the car had been stolen or broken into? There are many scenarios which could have ended in tragedy. There is no excuse for such negligence. 

In the service, YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for your weapon. Webb and Phillip both know this. Of course, Webb has yet to confirm that this WAS his weapon, so perhaps you are right and Webb did nothing at all wrong. But that would make Phillip either misinformed or a liar, and I don't care for that scenario at all. These are both honorable men, and I hold them to that standard.

And to compare a misplaced penknife or an accidentally-stolen video to forgetting about your loaded WEAPON is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but it is. I believe Jim Webb would be the first to agree. How many years was he a marine, for God's sake? Don't tell me he doesn't know better.

I don't understand the point of that press conference at all. It was terrible. Why not just say "no excuses, sir!" and apologize and be done with it, rather than going on about how Senators don't have secret service protection, etc. etc. It was baffling. I suppose we need to wait and see what develops--perhaps there is more to the story than has been revealed thus far. Otherwise, I'm at a loss to understand it.

Jim Webb was not holding the weapon.  He has a license to carry a concealed weapon.  Unlike many, he actually served in the US Marine Corp and knows how to safely handle his weapon.  I'm sure he had utmost confidence in anyone he entrusted his weapon to. 

I think you are feigning shock here.  Your points seem disingenuous - and quite frankly I think would make great RNC talking points.  Of course they will try and make political hay out of this.  Maybe they should copy your postings here. 

So enjoy your political jabs.  But here are the facts.  Politically speaking, this story has a 3-day lifespan.  In pure political terms, I believe it does Senator Webb more good considering that the NRA holding Republicans in Virginia can sleep well at night knowing their Senator supports the second amendment. 

The Senator's aid will get a slap on the wrist, and life goes on.  We all know he made a boo-boo.  So go ahead, and have your fun with it. I'm just relieved that (a few) Republicans are taking a break from calling John Edwards a "faggot" and describing his wife's cancer as a political maneuver.  What a nasty and dishonorable few weeks for Republicans.

This is a non-story.  The real story is the state of our government and the corruption within.

Honey, you want to check out my Democratic credentials, please go ahead. To hint that I am some sort of Republican operative is ridiculous in the extreme. Ask Lowell if you need confirmation. Better yet, ask Jim Webb himself.

Seriously, every time someone expresses concerns or disappointment or even offers criticism, they are working for the Republicans? Cannot one be loyal without being a kool-aid drinker?

If you don't agree that this was a very bad thing and that the coverage in the WaPo, among others, was also a very bad thing and that none of it reflects well on our Senator, then say so. Make your points without relying on snide innuendoes and personal attacks. That's bullsh*t, and unworthy of any Webb supporter.

IMHO, of course.

Okay, I have had it with the comments made regarding the posts made by LAS, who is one of the most loyal Democrats that I've ever known. To suggest otherwise is absurd. I likewise agree with LAS that being a loyal Dem does not mean that we drink the Kool-Aid and never utter constructive criticism.

The key issues here, in my mind are "responsible gun ownership" and loyalty. Surely, being responsible for something (especially a lethal weapon) would require that the person who owns that property know where it is at all times. Granted, the story may come out that Senator Jim Webb responsibly gave his weapon (and ammunition) to a staffer and assumed it would be put back in a safe place. BUT THE FACTS (AT LEAST THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN BY WEBB AND HIS STAFF SO FAR)suggest otherwise. In my mind, Webb should acknowledge that the gun was not responsbily handled by his staff. There are certainly legal cases in which a police officer left a personal weapon somewhere in the home and a child was injured or killed. I am not suggesting that this is what Jim Webb did. I just wish that gun owners who say we don't need safety measures like child safety locks would acknowledge that unfortunate things can and DO occur. It is concerning to me when circumstances arise such as this instance in which gun owners "forget" that they have a weapon and imply that it is the same as me forgetting that I have a pocket knife or a tube of lipstick in my purse. These are not lethal weapons! This current situation would be different if the gun was not loaded.But it was loaded and let's not forget the extra ammunition clips.

Secondy, as someone who truly admires Senator Jim Webb and worked hard to get him elected, I am disappointed. Reading his book "Born Fighting" and watching him during the campaign, I came to believe that Jim Webb was a man who had great loyalty to his friends. I admire that. During his press conference yesterday, Jim really did seem more interested in defending the Second Amendment than his long-time friend Phillip. Perhaps I am wrong and Jim is saying what he believes will help Phillip in the long run. I will wait for all of the facts to come out (and please, let's get it all out and over with).

Finally, to relawson and catzmaw, I have to ask this question: Why do you men always fall back on the stale, old mantra of implying that women need to "calm down". I am surprised you didn't call LAS "hysterical" since that's the NRA's usual talking point when women talk about gun safety. Cut the BS! Neither LAS nor I are suggesting that Jim Webb should not carry a gun or have a concealed carry permit. I knew he had one when I worked to get him elected. I DO expect that he handle it responsibly and admit a mistake when it does occur. And I really hope that Phillip has spent his first and last night in jail!

Second, I'm also an experienced criminal defense attorney.  I didn't say anything to LAS except to suggest that she calm down and wait until all the facts were in because it was becoming evident from the flow of information over the last couple of days that there is more to the story than is known, and that there may have been some miscommunication about what actually happened.  LAS's post was rather strident and judgmental and was assuming facts not in evidence. 

Third, your suggestion that Webb say more than he did would send me into a tizzy if I were defending Phillip.  In fact, my advice to everyone on Webb's staff and to Webb himself would have been not to say anything, except for vague expressions of loyalty and trust in Phillip, until all the facts were known.  It's clear only that there is some confusion about how all this came about, and that it's related to events which actually transpired days before the incident itself, which means the focus should be on doing a thorough investigation through interviews with everyone who had anything to do with Webb's departure on Friday right through to Phillip's arrest - INCLUDING the details of the arrest and his actual statements.  Everyone is saying that Phillip said it was Webb's gun and Webb handed it to him "as they approached the airport", but that story was actually told by a Webb staffer on Monday.  The only thing the police appear to have said is that Phillip told them it was Webb's gun.  Phillip could not have been interviewed by anyone from Webb's office on Monday because he was arrested at the door, and trust me, the cops would not have let him have a discussion with someone from his office.  Moreover, what the police report hearing from a defendant and what is actually said by a defendant differs far more often than one would think, so it's impossible at this point to know what Phillip actually said.

It appears from a close reading of the WaPo article that Mr. Gardiner had not yet had the opportunity to really speak to Phillip, at least not at length, before their appearance together at the hearing yesterday, and he would likely have confined himself to making sure enough was said about Phillip's ties to the community, his lack of a criminal record, and the apparent inadvertence of the crime charged to make sure Phillip was released on personal recognizance.  Bond motions usually take less than five minutes.  So at the time they were walking out of the courthouse the full story was not known by anyone except Phillip, who would have been told by his attorney to say absolutely nothing. 

Where you and others read disloyalty by Webb and a refusal to take responsibility I see an abundance of lawyerly caution.  I don't know if he was advised to be circumspect or simply remembered enough of criminal law to know to be circumspect, but he is doing the right thing.  It's impossible at this point to know what direction this case is going to take.  Webb is a witness - a potential witness for both sides - under these circumstances not only would I as a criminal lawyer advise him NOT to appear at the hearing and NOT to try to explain what happened to the press and all the other people demanding an explanation, I would advise him to keep his distance and NOT to discuss the case at all with Phillip.  I would probably advise him to put Phillip on leave from his office so that no hint of influence or collusion could be alleged.  If this case ever gets to trial, and Webb is called to the witness stand, the very first question out of the prosecution's mouth would be whether he discussed the case with either the defendant or his counsel.  If Webb has indeed spoken to Gardiner then it would be my fervent hope that Gardiner advised him if asked this question to say that yes he had, and that Gardiner had asked him to tell the truth.  He definitely wants to be able to say that he has not discussed the case at all with Phillip, even if he and Phillip have had contact with each other.

For those who are waiting for Webb to speak to these and other issues they will have to wait and see how the next hearing - which is a preliminary hearing - plays out.  At the preliminary hearing either there's going to be a deal struck, or the charges will be dropped, or the prosecution will seek to certify that probable cause exists for this matter to proceed to the trial level.  With so many variables in play Phillip does not need Webb and Webb's staff issuing statements and "trying to help", and we need to lay off of Webb until we know the real story and not make  assumptions and suppositions and leaps of logic.

1)Many Progressives and Liberals support and encourage the Constitutional right of all adult Americans to own, and carry guns.

2)Carrying a loaded pistol in a brief case is a perfectly safe endeavor. 

4) Congressmen and their staffers are allowed to be armed within the Capital.

5) Phillip Thompson violated a Capital Police security rule by bringing a loaded weapon through a security checkpoint.

While you may have a hysteric reaction to firearms, many people have grown up in the presence of guns, know proper gun handling, and rely on guns for personal security. They understand that personal safety is a personal obligation, and are unwilling to concede this responsibility to anyone, or expect it from anybody.

Phillip Thompson made a mistake, was detained, and arrested. I'm good with that. Looks like the security system worked. But Thompson should not be prosecuted.  No legal law has been violated, and no one has been harmed or made victim.

I've always thought the right to bear arms was a left-wing idea. These days that right is probably more threatened by the neocons as an extension of the Patriot Act.

As for the Senate, I'm betting there's more than one pistol in that chamber. 

As oppossed to an "illegal law?"  Boy, you had me reading that one a few times....

As recently ruled by the DC Court of Appeals (and any sensible American). Sorry for the confusion.

The law is still the law until the law is changed.  You will still get "legally" arrested for "illegally" carrying a gun in DC and will have your butt thrown in jail "legally" until the law is changed.  Therefore, law cannot be "illegal" (against the law) because it IS the law.  Simply contending that it is won't save you from incarceration.  Try it, you'll see.

The DC gun ban is illegal, it legislates rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution.  You can be arrested for all sorts of half-assed, even illegal reasons. It happens all the time. That is why we have prosecutors, courts and judges - they sort out the quick decisions made by enforcement (cops).

In fact you can even be convicted of an illegal law, that is what courts of appeal are for.  Phil Thompson could become just that sort of example.  The DC gun ban is illegal.

Many years ago when my children were small and my mother was meddlesome I took the lot of them to Price Club (Costco) with me, where I wandered for over an hour with a wailing infant in the cart and a toddler and preschooler darting up and down the aisles, while my mother screeched out the occasional "stop it" and "why are you doing this to your mother?"  I got tired of trying to cross things off my shopping list and picked up a Muppets reading video to use as a prop with the intention of buying it for the kids at the front.  Well, I zoned completely, and somehow made it through a checkout line and the guy at the door who checks receipts without anyone noticing I hadn't paid for the video.  I didn't even notice until I was unloading the car.  Sometimes things happen. 

If you travel extensively and you load and unload equipment, luggage, bags, purses -go in and out of a car, van- it is very easy to forget what you are packing/unpacking/carrying back into  or out of a vehicle...and add to the mix different state laws regarding what you can and cannot "carry".

My friend got "nailed" for carrying a banana in his bag at the Honolulu airport. He forgot about the agriculture ban on "mainland" produce. He didn't receive any citation, just a full serving of embarrassment.

Happy belated Birthday Phillip !

 

I'd say the prosecution's early analysis (assuming the DA didn't object) is that it was a mental mistake

If a suspicious person were to do the same thing, given the location of the act, bail might not even be granted

Let's hope for the best, and a fair dispensing of justice

which should help his case.  I'm a little concerned that his attorney is described in the WaPo as seemingly unfamiliar with DC Superior Court practice. Although it's okay to have a lead counsel who isn't necessarily familiar with court rules, it would behoove Phillip to have at least one well-regarded and seasoned Super Court practitioner to handle the delicate issues of navigating through the system.  Plus, a local will know the prosecutors, the possible dispositions, and all the other little nuances that go into this type of case.  Every court is different.

I hope someone who knows him reads your advice.  Sometimes members of the local criminal bar have a special rapport with the prosecutors.

Well, I always try to look on the brightside.  At least Webb's press-conference has made himself quite popular among Gun Enthusiasts in the past 24 hours.

Webb was always a 2nd Amendment guy and if I remember, That was more of an issue in the primary--when voters from the Miller camp would question whether he was liberal enough, even questioning if he were a Democrat.  Seems a little silly now, since he's really such terrific work for the party in the short time he's been there.  George Bush probably thinks Jim is the gold standard Democrat.

than good with gun enthusiast.  Why?  As predicted he is distancing himself from his right hand man.  What ever happened to "leave no one behind"?  Also why does he think that the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to him?

Here is the WaPo write up:

"Webb even hinted that he ignores the District law requiring handguns to be registered. Asked if he considered himself above D.C. law, he said: "I'm not going to comment in any level in terms of how I provide for my own security," he said.

The senator was less forthcoming in his defense of Thompson. "He is going to be arraigned today," Webb said. "I do not in any way want to prejudice his case and the situation that he's involved in."

Prejudice the case? But wasn't it Webb's gun that his aide was carrying for him?

Webb wouldn't even acknowledge it was his gun. "I have never carried a gun in the Capitol complex, and I did not give the weapon to Phillip Thompson," he stipulated.

Webb had kind words for his aide -- "a longtime friend" and "a fine individual" -- but he seemed to be trying to cut Thompson loose as he spoke of the incident. "I find that what has happened with Phillip Thompson is enormously unfortunate," Webb reported. "I was in New Orleans from last Friday until yesterday evening. I was not in town. I learned about this when I was in New Orleans."

Upon reflection, Webb must have decided that he had been stinting in his defense of Thompson. An hour later, his office sent out an amended statement. "I can say with great confidence that this was an inadvertent mistake on his part," the statement said. It was a little late for Lockup No. 1."

Much, much too late!

for an audition with FOX News?

Sometimes its best not to feed the trolls.  The more posters that react to MOV1D, the more he comes back with inane comments.  Let him be.

I think you're at the wrong website, my friend.  May I suggest the Fox News Blog?

Feels like I'm already there!

and no decent attorney would make a prejudicial statement to the press, ever.

You may feel that he was not vociferous enough in 1) his own responsibility or 2) his defense of Phillip but he was doing his job as a lawyer and potential witness.

The best thing he could've done for Phillip is not ruin his case before it's even tried.

you put it in a nutshell.

I'm one of five and when I was about nine we went on vacation with our parents, in the family station wagon.  About 40 miles past a rest stop someone said, "Where's Chrissy?" My parents were horrified.  They had left her at the last rest stop.  We went back, she was fine and smiling.  "I knew you'd come back for me."

Now my true confession.  In the last two years I have forgotten about early release on Mondays in Fairfax -- kids get out a 1:10.  Three times.  Ouch.  But the office assures me other people do it too. 

Stuff happens.  We're forgetful even with the most precious things in our lives.

at our church after First Communion rehearsal.  She stood in the cold for three hours before they realized their mistake ... hmmm, seems terrible now, but at the time her snotty older sister (me) thought she had it coming to her.

During the time when Congress in in active session, there at least used to be a law in DC on the books that was designed to protect Delegates (House or Senate) from being arrested or detained while they are en-route to or from the Capital. In fact, the members themselves can walk around the metal detectors in the Capital complex when they wear the appropriate identification. The idea behind this is to avoid the potential obstruction of votes by local government officials or even the delay by a false police report causing a member to miss his voting opportunity. In many ways it was treated by law enforcement in their data base like they do for diplomatic immunity only more so during sessions.

Unfortunately, I can see how it can cause some bad habits to form in the amazingly hectic lives of our delegates as well as their staffers and in no way means they respect the rule of law any less. Not to mention the potential need for members of congress to protect themselves and family members from disgruntaled voters or even worse in our open society.

...Cynthia McKinney wasn't packing!

I love Webb and I'm a 2nd amendment guy, but amongst my personal "focus groups" and circles of other pro-2nd amendment  cats, it seems Webb has lost a little ground as a responsible gun owner from his press conference. I really don't think this will matter all that much in the end, as he might get a temporary backlash from the press conference, but nothing longterm.

(Except among the fellow's friends.)

More than one has remarked that this whole brouhahahaha has probably secured a second term for Webb, being as he is from Virginia. Stop the angst.