MyDD: "Death by Meta?"

By: Lowell
Published On: 3/26/2007 6:27:57 AM

Over at MyDD, Chris Bowers has a thought-provoking post on whether a key "danger of online political communities" is what he calls "death by meta."  Bowers argues that what used to be called "meta" - discussion of "the role of the progressive, political blogosphere within the broader political ecosytem" - now has "come to refer to something much more specific: discussions centering on the internal dynamics of a small number of prominent personalities within the Dailykos-centric community and blogosphere."  And Bowers obviously doesn't like it:

"Meta" discussions have become utterly destructive to the broader goal of coalition building, as they increasing become based on cults of personality, divisive factionalization, violations of privacy, accusations of conspiracy, charges of prejudice, and petty name-calling.

[...]

...Now, it means flame wars, rather than theory. It means accusations of conspiracy, prejudice and "selling out," rather than discussion. It means holding up personalities on a pedestal and factionalizing into groups around those pedestals, rather than building coalitions. It also means that some people just can't get over problems the have on Dailykos.

Interestingly, in what might be a "meta" moment of its own,  Markos himself comes and comments on the MyDD "meta" diary about why Daily Kos has gotten more "meta" since its traffic surged to half a million visits per day.  Kos writes about MyDD:

This site clearly fills a niche, and it's a more professional one. That definitely has something to do with the dynamics Bowers described. But, I doubt the same feel would exist if traffic hit 500k.

And when MyDD grows to that level, you will see those dynamics change. In this world, size definitely matters.

So here's a "meta" question for a "meta" diary: Does larger size lead to more "meta," or does more "meta" lead to larger size?  Does the tone simply flow down from the top dog on a blog?  Or is there something else going on?  I'm not totally sure what makes one blog more "meta" than another, or whether it is a potentially bad thing as Chris Bowers ("Death by Meta") argues, but I think it's a topic - "meta" or otherwise" - worth discussing.


Comments



a couple of factors (Kathy Gerber - 3/26/2007 9:39:49 AM)
Choices in priorities, timing and collective tastes play a role.

One of your recent diaries demonstrates how far behind the curve some mainstream entities are - http://www.raisingka...

One way of looking at meta is as an informal subset of a larger domain that is "information theoretical."  That realm contains a fair amount of interesting work (e.g., the long tail), but there's also a large body of a kind of pseudo-science that appears to be disproportionately affected by - I don't know - old school Russian theosophy or something quite like it.

Your diary here reflects a larger issue: a number of paradigms have not yet been adequately fleshed out or integrated into the larger culture. If I had to name RK's niche product, I would say it's results (and work) oriented effectiveness. And while I know it's not the case for many, that's the "product" I'm after.  There's no shortage of theory elsewhere, elegant or not.

Secondly, as an informal experiment, I was interested in answering this question: can a person who is isolated physically impact politics in a significant way?  This is (was actually) an entertaining component of my blog interest.

Recently there was a thread train about "wanting better."

Metafilter
Waldo Jaquith
blacknell

Blogs cast the classic tension between quantity and quality in sharp relief.  Here's just one example - now historical - showing that such sentiment is not a new phenomenon:


The Internet boom of the 1990's brought new changes and challenges. In the 80's, Usenet traffic was carried mostly across private networks and dial-up connections between network sites, but the Internet was faster and could carry Usenet to more places - and more people, as private homes connected to the Internet in large numbers. At first, the veteran Usenet community resented this influx of "newbies," particularly the ones from fast-growing online service America Online.

etc. There are many other examples. Usenet tied together tiny highly specialized communities that were scattered around the globe. Those communities adapted - here's an example from 1993 where OP-SF NET created a newsletter: http://cio.nist.gov/...

blacknell focused on this sentence -
I don't have the time anymore to wade through all the stuff.

That's exactly why I don't read several genres of fiction. Something had to go.

On the political front we remain in an arduous phase of governmental restoration and accounting.  The swamp is still draining, the noise level is nearly intolerable, and things are not very pretty.  The people who are making a substantive difference right now are working their asses off. Not everyone has the stomach for it.

Just to stay within one or two degrees of online separation, in addition to teacherken, here are a few more folks who have been at RK at one time or another and are now making an impact on the national scene over at DK - a fine super-selected sliver of humanity:

-- RenaRF transcribed Bush's recent speech
-- beachmom caught Fox news monkeying around with transcripts.
-- and she also wrote a kickass story on Webb and Iran
-- Kagro X writes quality material almost every day

And the ePluribus Media Community is making the 2000 pages DOJ pdf dump searchable.

Every single one of them does their research.  And they all work through the tedium.

Marcy Wheeler's book,  Anatomy of Deceit, was 99.99% perspiration. Go read her DK diaries to see just how much perspiration was involved.  Here's her bio from amazon:

About the Author
Marcy Wheeler blogs under the name "emptywheel" at the political blog The Next Hurrah. Her PhD and academic background - relating to citizen journalism at times of heavy propaganda - brings a unique perspective to her blogging and the CIA leak case. Several of her posts have scooped the mainstream media's coverage of the Plame Affair, including her coverage of Scooter Libby's NIE leaks. She is a self-employed business consultant based in Ann Arbor, MI.

Ya'll.

Skim, focus, work, rest.  There's no other way to do it really. Am I above whining?  Hell, no.  I've even stamped my feet on my "notes to self" blog about something as trivial as the quality of linux distributions.  Quality is sucky in all kinds of places.

Here's something to think about when it comes to blogs.  dailykos is blue and freerepublic is red.  They're from alexa, and you can click on them to get a better view.

What incredible momentum up until the election.  Taking the view over the last 6 months shows how steep the drop was post-election, and how freerepublic may be holding better than dailykos.

I'd like to see the opposite. More involvement.  More participation. More noise.  Even if it means more typos. If it's too much for me, I can walk away just like everyone else. 



Interesting timing... (Detcord - 3/26/2007 8:33:33 PM)
...with George Will having a similar column on a related subject in Sunday's Washington Post

http://www.washingto...

Both well worth the read...



I read this piece on MYDD (Nick Stump - 3/27/2007 1:45:39 AM)
As someone who hangs around the fringes of the blogging world, sometimes working for one group or the other, I'm fairly ignorant on the discussion, but I thought Bowers' piece yesterday was thought provoking and I learned a lot, getting answers to several question that has popped up in my mind though the course of actually trying to push issues through the blogoshere. 

I'm glad to see more here--even though now I have even more questions.  I sat down about 15 years ago and decided I would expand my education and with the internet now a serious research tool along with a houseful of books--it seems 24 hours is too short.

I only recently started reading MYDD daily, and find it really does have a professional, even academic approach to many of the diaries, and I like their content very much.



Maryscott O'conner (Jambon - 3/27/2007 4:18:16 PM)
I think we'll be safe from any major meta wars so long as she stays away from these parts ;)  (I never really understood her deal)

But seriously, I think it the tone is mostly set by the top dog/blog owner.  So I encourage Lowell to stomp out any meta BS on this site if it should arrive.