Murtha on MoveOn Derails Dems?

By: Lowell
Published On: 2/25/2007 9:48:05 AM

There's an interesting article in today's Washington Post entitled, "Murtha Stumbles on Iraq Funding Curbs: Democrats Were Ill-Prepared for Unplanned Disclosure, Republican Attacks."  The gist of it is that Murtha supposedly "botched" the launch of a plan to "grab hold of Iraq war policy while forcing Republicans to defend sending troops into battle without the necessary training or equipment." 

According to the Post story, Murtha's appearance on the liberal, anti-war Moveon.org site (2/15) apparently backfired big-time, "unit[ing] Republicans and divid[ing] Democrats, sending the latter back to the drawing board just a week before scheduled legislative action, a score of House Democratic lawmakers said last week."  Aside from the venue of Murtha's announcement, many Democrats reportedly viewed Murtha's announcement as "disloyal" to Nancy Pelosi, coming just a "day before the House voted on a nonbinding resolution opposing Bush's additional troop deployments that Democratic leaders had been touting as a major rebuke." Whoops.

Anyway, the end result of all this is that "the Democratic rank-and-file cracked -- on the left and the right." Which leaves us...somewhere, nobody knows where, on a strategy to stop the Iraq "surge."  My question for the day is this: was Murtha's big mistake his appearance on MoveOn, his timing and not so much his venue, the unwillingness of Democrats to fight back hard enough against Republican attacks, all of the above, or none of the above?  What do you think?


Comments



Objecting to vs. insisting on sending well trained, well provisioned troops? (smmilo - 2/25/2007 10:12:28 AM)
Who is the patriot?  Democrats need to keep working on building backbone. 


"charging" the hill (hereinva - 2/25/2007 11:01:08 AM)
Did Murtha "charge the hill" with flag in hand without a supporting battalion or was he acting as an "army of one". Having a loudspeaker does not guaranty getting support or success- Time to check the egos at the door and start working on a plan together.


Someone in the Caucus Needs to Exhibit Leadership (Ron1 - 2/25/2007 12:07:28 PM)
Murtha's plan strikes me as the single best way to influence policy vis-a-vis Iraq, absent a modification of the war authorization that Biden, et al, are planning in the Senate (which looks to have approximately zero chance of passing in our "Most Retarded ... err, Deliberative Body.")

That House Dems can't get behind this speaks volumes about a leadership vacuum in that body. Hopefully Pelosi can get the caucus, minus the Republican Lites, back on board after the recess.

Congress is EXPLICITLY given the power in Article I Section 8 to regulate the armed forces ("To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces") and organize and govern the militia ("To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States"), along with the power of the purse. It seems to me that actually amending the rules regarding the deployment of troops is the BEST way to reshape war policy without treading on Article II, Commander-in-Chief territory.

That the Democrats still don't know how to read and use the Constitution to fight this inept President and Republican talking points is disheartening. We know that they are 100% dishonest and will say whatever it takes to try to tar and feather the non-true believers. Seeing "Blue Dogs" and other Dems directly using their talking points in such an article is sickening.

Murtha's plan, however ham-fisted he may have been in introducing it to the caucus, ought to be fought for. It's the only way to gain enough leverage in the fight over veto, by tying it to the actual appropriations for the war, to have a realistic chance of passing.



Why Do They Not Just Defund? (Dowd - 2/25/2007 12:52:45 PM)
I am really tired of face saving measures such as this, the Democratic Party should simply defund the war, Republican attacks be damned. Murtha's plan just seems to complicate things unnecessarly. While we are on the subject, why didn't we just vote down General Petracus? It was his strategy to surge and try and win the war, we should have voted him down...


Defunding NO (Gordie - 2/25/2007 1:34:20 PM)
The worst plan any Democrat can come up with is DEFUNDING the war.

First most of the American people who remember Vietnam are against such action.

Second it will play right into the President's and Carl Rove's plan. They want out but do not have the courage, so they are attempting to embarrass the Democrats and use it against them. Can't anyone see the spin and recognize it for what it is?

Third it is the entire Republican  Parties plan to embarrass the Democrats. There are few Republicans who have the guts to save lives and really want to win Iraq the right way. To win the way the Baker commission suggested, is not the Republican ideal so they will not follow it. Had they decided to go this route they would all be endorsing it.

This week turn on CSpan1 and 2 and listen to all the Republican spin about defunding. Don't fall for it as you listen. Really keep an open mind and the spin will become reality for what it is and the truth will be known. It is all a plan to force defunding and embarrassing for '08.

Politics are moe important then American lives to Republicans and Carl Rove and Dick Cheney and Condi. Bush is just their puppet.

In 2000 it was apparent this country was in trouble when I heard Bush say' "I am a deligator", which means he does not have ideals of what to do, so he delegates to others in hope they will come up with the right answer. Those words are a true indicator the man is NOT a leader. Never was a decider and never will be a decider.

He is a Deligater, period.



Defunding a bad Idea (Nick Stump - 2/25/2007 9:54:50 PM)
I remember defunding during Vietnam.  What it meant to me is I didn't get jungle boot or fatiques and ended up having to buy them myself on the black market after my stateside combat boots fell apart.  Defunding, at least during Vietnam, and as I remember it, affected the guys on the ground.  Plus it's a political disaster.  I would be nice if we could just turn off the faucet, but probably a mistake and the last thing Democrats want is a military coming home from this war, angry at Democrats because they didn't have what they needed in the war.  Better the Republican party keep that reward--they've sure earned it this time.


Murtha's ego being used against him (Teddy - 2/25/2007 1:11:54 PM)
Murtha has had a long tradition of gruff ego-based stubbornness akin to that of Bush. Being an original hawk on the war with Iraq, combined with his close connections to the military, made him a darling of the Republicans--- until he became an apostate and spoke against the War.  Now, of course, the Republicans know exactly how to proceed against him, and are particularly vicious because they always are against some one they had thought belonged on their side (whatever that side was at the time).

But remember Murtha's long connections with the ,ilitary insiders at the Pentagon. Would he have come out with this plan if it did not really suit his military friends? Is perhaps this plan really what the military insiders want, and Murtha is merely expressing it for them? Or, at least, expressing his understanding of what the military really wants, but cannot express against their Commander in Chief while they are still on active duty? (See the article on RK below this one, about militaryflag officers ready to resign if Bush orders an attack on Iran).

And for heaven's sake, where is Pelosi in all this? Congress may not be in session, but she is still Speaker; where is the Democratic Majority leader, Hoyer? Why have they not spoken up forcefully in response to the Republican smears? Once again, the Democrats should make instant response to Republican smears and attacks of any kind; Murtha should not be left twisting in the wind. It would not have taken much (a phone call between Pelosi and Hoyer? conference call among Pelosi-Hoyer-Murtha?) to come up with a story line and a few attacks of their own.

In this day of Instant Messaging the Democrats' inability to "fill the vacuumn" is not understandable; really, not acceptable. Get on the ball, Nancy and Stenny.



Great Points All (AnonymousIsAWoman - 2/25/2007 1:56:44 PM)
Teddy, as usual, you are right on target.  It's always good to remind people - the attackers on the right included - that Murtha has long and deep ties to the military insiders.  He may well be presenting their position for them.  Those on active duty cannot come out and directly contradict their commander-in-chief.  Nor is it appropriate for them to comment on politics and policy but only on strategy to implement the policy.  That's why you usually only hear criticism of Bush from those who have retired their commissions.

But even that is unusual.  In the past, when top ranking military leaders retired, they still stayed above the fray and refrained from criticism of the president, except in cases where they had an active interest in entering politics themselves.

It's obvious from the number of retired officers now critical of Iraq and from Murtha's public statements, which probably do reflect a lot of the active military leaders' opinions, that the military is as deeply troubled about this war as the rest of us.

And yes, Teddy is also right to ask where is the Democratic leadership.  With Bush's approval ratings in the low 30s at best and public disapproval for the war at an all time high, why are they still so timid about taking a stand?

They shouldn't defund it because that could be spun as pulling the rug out from under the troops all ready there.  But short of that they need to speak with one voice in condemning the administration for getting us into an unnecessary war and for the incompetent way it has conducted the war.

That, after all, is what they were elected to do.



Thank you (Teddy - 2/25/2007 2:13:01 PM)
that IS what they were elected to do. And I fear that if they do not do what they were elected to do, the voters will turn against them next election. It is out of exactly this kind of frustration that demagogic leaders arise to fill the vacuumn, cashing in on the opportunity for leadership. Here comes the Man on a White Horse, here comes the Hitler or other petty tyrant... all because the Democratic leadership failed to lead and ignored their mandate.

One must ask Why? Why, again and again, when someone, whether Republican or Democrat, raises their head above the crowd and implies some criticism, why do they always cave in? Can it be that the universal spying on everyone instituted by Bush has provided him or Rove with various tidbits of derogatory information on opponents that they can use to blackmail these opponents, and buy their silence? Do the Republican big money bags secretly buy the opponents off some how? How else to explain the consistent derelection of duty?



Why Do We Let the "Wrong" Party Demonize Move-on? (KathyinBlacksburg - 2/25/2007 3:45:07 PM)
What's up with the demonization of Move-on?  They fought the impeachment of Clinton (in supporting a DLC moderate, it was not very radical there.  It opposed the war.  So do most of us.  Every time the radical right declares a group or an individual "the enemy," too many Dems run for cover instead of fighting back.  We are continually letting the radical right frame and define us.  Why do we put up with this stuff? 


I think there's some truth to what you're saying (Lowell - 2/25/2007 4:15:25 PM)
...HOWEVER, I also think that many centrist/moderate Democrats are simply uncomfortable with MoveOn.  Personally, as a proud Teddy Roosevelt/Mark Warner/Wes Clark/Jim Webb Progressive, I have mixed feelings about them.