Wild On! Arnold

By: Josh
Published On: 12/5/2005 2:00:00 AM

Back in the days when Republican President George W. Bush was an alcaholic fratboy, the guy who would become the Republican Governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, was groping his way around the world and making softcore travel videos.

Quoth the Gropenator:

I can absolutely understand why Brazil is totally devoted to my favorite body part:  the ass.

Watch the video to see Mr. Universe's groping technique.  Bring your airsick bag.



Comments



Let's not forget tha (Christian Grantham - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Let's not forget that elected officials like Delegate Bob Marshall signed Norquist's no-tax pledge with the exact same goal to "drown [democracy] in the bathtub". I believe Norquist sums up the values of officials who have squandered their opportunity to serve the people.

The reality these irresponsible politicians prefer is a government of the people that is no longer responsible to its citizens and undermines the principles of democracy itself. The government people like Bob Marshall prefer is one where the least of our people are the most underserved. That is fundamentally immoral and antithetical to the values most share in the 13th District.

For years, the people of the 13th District didn't have a choice. On November 8, 2005, they do. On September 22, we look forward to debating our opponent at the Manassas Holiday Inn and contrasting his ineffectiveness with the leadership the 13th District deserves.



you seem to forget t (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
you seem to forget that the whole american experiment is tied to the liberal...yes liberal notion that the individual is the measure of success and is able to take care of himself without heavy handed monarchy imposed intervention...the idea is that men are equal and that none are superior to others in any regard...thus your dependency on big government that takes a maternal care of its population who are to dumb to take care of themselves is directly in contradiction to the  american basis of individualism...i for one being a libertarian have zero faith in the governments ability to protect and provide care for me...after all ask the infants that are partly born and then have their brains sucked out and their bodies experimented on...(nazi's anyone)...it is true that industries change and that includes farming...just like when the tractor was invented horse farmers and farriers went out of business...when the auto became popular the buggy makers went broke...modern technology has revolutionized agriculture...it is anymore profitable for small farmers to farm than it would be for me to go out and build autos one by one to try to compete with GM...is this sad...yes sort of...however the government can not fix these sorts of problems with regulation and interference...(see the Great Depression and the artificially low interest rates of the Fed. Reserve in the 25-29)...they are natural market corrections and adjustments influenced by technology and natural disaster to name a few...

i for one am tired of the govt. assuming i am to dumb to save for the future and taking 15% out of my check...i am tired of the govt. assuming i am to dumb to know how to buckle a seat belt...i am sick and tired of people moving from self reliance to dependency on the feds...whatever happened to ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country...

Republicans and Democrats are largely the same...

The Feds regulate business so all the jobs move to China and India...they must increase and we will become economic and political backwash similar to Europe...a service sector only economy...



Regardless of party, (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Regardless of party, race, or creed, any member of congress who fails to exempt the victims of Katrina from the new "wage slavery act" need to be removed from whatever positions of power they may hold.

Then they should have their houses drowned, one in seven of them should have a family member killed, and then they should be forced to work for minimum wage for the next 30 years while their creditors take 30% of their wages.

Just a suggestion.



Christian: Exactly (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Christian:  Exactly right.  The people of Virginia need to realize that the same heinous, hateful philosphy motivates Pat Robertson, Grover Norquist, and people like Bob Marshall and Jerry Kilgore.  At this point, there's no way you can separate those people -- support one, support them all.  If not, it's "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."


To Mr. Good, I apolo (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
To Mr. Good, I apologize for any discomfort I caused about your name(a little late, perhaps, but I just returned); I honestly thought you had chosen it as your on-line name, it seemed so appropriate. Also, I have some good news: if I understand you correctly we AGREE that people do know what's best for themselves, and the government (or society) should get out of our hair. I do not believe that being "liberal" means imposing my lifestyle or choices on others; in fact, the exact opposite. I'm pretty sure I do not know what's best for anyone else. As for families taking care of their own vulnerable members, as near as I can tell the story of humanity has been a constant struggle to expand the idea of family and community (isn't that what the major religions try to do? "brothers and sisters in Christ?" "the brotherhood of Man?"). In other words, as the human race increases exponentially in number and (hopefully) grows up, they expand their idea of family caring and try thus to cut down on war and bigotry. To my way of thinking, we are all Americans and we're all in this together, a family. So it's NOT "nanny state" for the American family to take care of each other, whether blood relatives or not. And yes, I understand our society does have deadbeats, moochers, lazies, those who ride the sick book (as we say in the military)... just like any family.  That doesn't change the concept. Interestingly enough, the recent census found that single households outnumber households composed of so-called "nuclear families." When asked why so many lived alone, the answers were generally that they preferred it that way and did NOT want to be shackled with relatives. So, given a choice, many prefer their own company. Hmmm


Has anyone noted the (PM - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Has anyone noted the blog reportage that the current head of FEMA was fired from his last job (head of a horse assn) for incompetence?  Sheesh -- with his experience, he sounds like the GOP candidate for delegate in my district, Craddock (67th) who has had two jobs -- cutting grass for his dad's company and being the second assistant coach of a high school soccer team.  Of course he'll be a nice tool for Norquist and his followers. 


Conyers has a bill t (Jonathan Mark - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Conyers has a bill that would exempt Katrina victims from the new bankruptcy bill. That bill would subject people who lost their jobs in the floods to a means test that would be based upon what they earned before the flood! Go figure.

There is no excuse for any Dem, I said any Dem, including the local Dem who Alice supports, to fail to support in public the Conyers legislation.

It will come up next week. The three local Democratic reps should cosponsor it.

How about it, Alice? Willing to criticize a particular local Democratic incumbent? You know who I am talking about. He voted for Debt Slavery last April.

Of course, it is so much more satisfying to grouse about the Republicans and the conservatives and the neocons and the fundamentalists. That is so much more fun than investigating what some of our Democratic leaders around here are doing in their closed door backroom deals with Tom Davis.

Yes, we better not ask about backroom deals involving Tom Davis and local Dem incumbents. We just might find out a thing or two that we would rather not know.

Right, Alice?



I started to won (Alice Marshall - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
I started to wonder if this is really some horrible mistake or if this is the fulfillment of decades of planning.

Not decades, it seems more recent than that.

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup

KBR was assigned the work under a "construction capabilities" contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process. The company is not involved in the Army Corps of Engineers' effort to repair New Orleans' levees.


very lastly josh,... (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
very lastly josh,...i read your comment on hansmast.com...i appreciate it andn love these discussions...may i be a person of integrity...and may we continue to debate these issues...

...left more on hans' blog
joshuabgood



one more comment to (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
one more comment to teddy...of course we need eachother...but just like we left the hominids without the Fed.s i would posit that human beings are smart enough to help eachother now through private charities and out of their own giving...that giving which by the way you said we evolved with...so why do we need the feds????

waiting to here from you ted or josh



well, i guess i did (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
well, i guess i did neglect to leave out a small portion of my position that being where individuals fail...i.e. the very young and the very old...they are taken care of by their families...similar to Muslim society and most other cultures with the exception being western...however with the denigration of the family (see divorce and homosexuality) such is likely impracticle in western civ....

...as for the current left who think themselves smarter and no better what do for us than we ourselves do see teddy's patronizing comment...enough said...

babies unborn are existing human beings teddy...you also were one such and i would have protested that you be saved regardless of your superiority complex...

the way to level the playing field josh...is to get out of it...thus business will respond to labors demands accordingly...or be out of workers...it is the beauty of a free market...there are no losers...if i sell you my car josh you are happy cause you have the car...i am happy cause i have your money...labor should be a commodity that is bought and sold just as freely as any other commodity...

one more comment teddy it is not about machismo but the...and i will say it again...liberal notion that the individual knows best how to succeed in life...

lastly....joshuabgood is my name joshua bradwell good...some things you can choose yet...despite our ratcheting toward socialism...however your name is not



Actually, I think jo (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Actually, I think joshuabgood (clever, that) is more of an anarchist than a libertarian. Such manly machismo would be a good joke but for the unintended consequences of applying his philosophy. Human beings are social animals, and that is supposedly one way we overcame our hominid rivals and are now at the top of the food chain. Vulnerable human beings who may not be able to "take care" of themselves unaided have frequently been major contributors to civilization. Elderly, no longer strong enough to do physical battle, may still have plenty of knowledge, experience, and ability to contribute to their society. It may come as news to joshuabgood, but he, too, will one day need help from his fellow humans, despite his current immature certainty he will not. His tacky view of the social system, thank whatever gods he prefers, is not the sort of idea on which great nations are built. Curious how concerned he is about an unborn fetus but not about an existing human being. Poor dear.


Josh B: Thanks fo (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
Josh B:

Thanks for your involved comment.

A couple of points:

1.  There's a huge difference between individual achievement and leaving thousands of people to die.  What you seem to forget is that private property isn't some divine right or some natural providence, but is a decision made by the people and embodied in governmental statute.  It is well within the right of that same government to demand more of those who prosper most from that man-made decision.  Taxes are the burden we all pay for all the services provided by government.  You argue that government shouldn't provide services at all:  I'd hazard that there are a hundred thousand people in New Orleans who would differ with you on that point.

2.  I got your (not-to) veiled reference to nazis and abortion.  Nice one.  Does small government involve beaurocrats making decisions for women and their doctors.  Unregulated industry has now made sure that every baby born and every ounce of natural mother's milk has hundreds of toxins inside.  Does getting government off your back, mean that industry has more of a right to use the air, water, land for their purposes than Americans have?

3.  As for your opposition to Social Security ensures that you are part of a miniscule minority.  And George Bush asured that nobody is asking what they can do for their country, they're just out for #1.  Greed is our new GOD, thanks to these cutthroats.

4.  Finally, if we maintaned requirements for worker, environemtal, and consumer rights in our trade negotiations as much as we protected the rights of large corporations, we'd have a level playing field.  As it is we're rapidly winning the race to the bottom of the wage pool, and indeed we do seem destined for a service only economy.

The Progressive Values of Democracy and Broad Based Prosperity, of Smart Government, Strong Communities, Fair Markets, Investing in The Future and Leading by Example, may not be as easy to grasp as "less government, lower taxes, bigger military, and christian nation", but they are powerful, rich, civilized, human, decent and unlike the values of the radical conservative movement, they are based in the same Enlightenment principles that guided Jefferson's great work.



If the point is that (Jonathan Mark - 4/4/2006 11:27:58 PM)
If the point is that government's response to Katrina is inadequate, then we should be willing to note that those 73 Dems who support the imposition of harsh new bankruptcy rules on Katrina debtors also support that "heinous, hateful philosophy."



But look at the cont (LoganFerree - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
But look at the contrast between Tim Kaine and Creigh Deeds, both with large pages talking about donations, and Leslie Byrne's page, which has a small paragraph.


?i am do (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
?i am doubtful that liberal arts leraning ever made anybody much money?but maybe

I'll see if Anne Rice can give an opinion on that topic.

Here's her opinion on what a miserable failure we all did in letting one of the most beautiful and magnificent cities on earth die this week.

http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/wwl090305annerice.21ad697f.html

The fault in this belongs to all of us.  We allowed these foxes in the hen house.  We allowed greed to destroy the American dream.  We all killed New Orleans.



I would point out th (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
I would point out that Leslie Byrne sent out the following e-mail the other day:

Dear Friends:

Natural disasters bring out the best and the worst in people.

The outpouring of donations and help from concerned Virginians will be unprecedented for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. Unfortunately, there will always be those who try to make a quick buck from someone else's suffering. Please check out this Washington Post article: Scammers Hit Web In Katrina's Wake. To give to a bona fide relief agency, please go to the Federal Emergency Management Agency's web site. FEMA: 2005 Hurricane Season.

We must be mindful that in our efforts for disaster relief, we must use our heads as well as our hearts. Our prayers and thoughts go to those in Louisiana and Mississippi. We offer Virginia's hand in friendship for the enormous task ahead.

With Kindest Regards

Leslie



Josh- Oh, dear, I se (Genevieve - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Josh- Oh, dear, I seem to have spent waaaaaayyy too much time babysitting my friend's kids today, because "in his eyes, you're #2" just sent my mind straight into the gutter. Ouch. ANd I'm supposed to be a mature college stud--oh, oxymoron. Yeah. :D


Jerry Kilgore: Looki (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Jerry Kilgore: Looking out for #1.  In his eyes, you're #2.


Glad you put this up (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Glad you put this up, Josh.

Really shows who Jerry Kilgore is looking out for, doesn't it?



ahem...Gen.. .that's (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
ahem...Gen.. .that's just what I meant ;)


"Let a new AMerica a (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
"Let a new AMerica arise with true liberty and true justice for all"

i agree josh...though to me this "true" business about justice and liberty...sounds like objective morality which presupposes an objective law giver...from whence else could it come???from men?no then it is not objective but simply some one elses opinion...ah but true liberty and true justice i like that...dare say moral liberty and moral justice...

i agree with you once again...but differ on the means

nonetheless yours are the best blogs on this site...no cursing...best written...and not just idiotic rhetoric of bush haters...(i don't care that much for bush myself but mindless rhetoric i find difficult to read)

joshuabgood



i understand and agr (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
i understand and agree with almost all of your desired ends...however i have some serious questions about the means...the federal govt. botches everything they get into...to name a few, the Iraq War, Vietnam War, Korean War, and remember when LBJ was going to end poverty...he didn't, FDR was going to end the GReat Depression with Govt. intervention and he didn't...Roosevelt was going to give a square deal...seems he neglected the black americans...Education continues to be poor even after no-child=left-behind...they spend more than they make every year...why should we assume they are going to do such a great job on infrastructure and protection...

secondly why do you assume the govt. will have our best interest in mind...when categorically all other socialist govt.s have been radicalist...

thirdly why do trust the govt...most of whom are the self described "cult billionare's"...(see blue blood elitist Kerry, and rich W, and Rhodes Scholar clinton...and on and on and on...

why such faith in govt. and such distrust in business...

the libertarians like myself trust business because for them to get rich and be successful they must take care of the consumer and laborer...however the Feds are answerable to no -one...see Roe v. Wade...see Iraq War...etc....

joshuabgood



one more comment the (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
one more comment the vast prosperity you speak of while being very complex to establish cause...the "safty net" had little or nothing to do with it and is more accurately viewed as a result...the cause is more accurately understood though not solely, as the free market and following industrial explosion of business in America during the latter half of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th...whether or not education played a role...i am doubtful that liberal arts leraning ever made anybody much money...but maybe
joshuabgood


Ummmmmm.... I knew t (Genevieve - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Ummmmmm.... I knew that. Yeah.... Yes. Yes I did. Of course I did.


Hey Joshb: Thanks f (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Hey Joshb:
Thanks for the kind words.  You know, we're all in this together regardless of what culture, leadership, or fear might lead us to believe.

As for the issue of the source of "true justice", I think Kant may have addressed that issue much better than I ever could.

"Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law." Immanuel Kant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_Imperative

Is God the source of the "Golden Rule" or the "Categorical Imperative"?  Not necessarily, and clearly God is not the sole ideological basis of the Rule of Law, which is the basis for our Government, Society and Culture.  No religion is necessary to keep people from kiling eachother. Ethics and the Common Good transcend religion.

And that's really the whole point of the Enlightenment, of which Kant and Rousseau and others were progenitors and which our American Revolution was the fulfillment.  Clearly Religion-based government failed to serve the fundamental freedoms of Mankind, thus the enormous threat of ignorance, dogma, and backwardness inherent in religious poltics.

The anti-choice, anti-science, anti-religious freedom movement which now owns the GOP doesn't just want to go back to a time before Martin Luther King, Jr, they want us to go back to a time before Martin Luther.
---------
On a personal note, I personally beleive that ALL of Everything that exists is from God and therefor of God, but I'm hard pressed to believe that the likes of Pat Robertson are qualified to interpret Godliness to me.  I prefer to interpret Jefferson's "pursuit of happiness" in the authentic terms of the Enlightement which he intended: the pursuit of happiness is an endless, individual pursuit of virtue that government exists to protect.  After that, government should keep the peace and stay the *^*( out of my personal relationship with Divinity.

God Bless America!



You want to cut my t (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
You want to cut my taxes? My taxes protect American lives.
You want to downsize the government? My government defends the American people.
You want the government off your back?  My government watches my back.

Joshb:  your arguments don't hold up as an excuse to teach creationism in school (intelligent design), and they don't hold up here.

You argue against government intervention, yet you'd rather the government decide for women what's best for their reproductive health.

All of your points about the failings of those who believe in government can be disputed by a thousand instances of how striving towards those ends actually helped people, and changed lives.

While there have been large businesses that have actually worked to help people, they are a miniscule minority.  I think Costco is a good example of a business that's trying to take care of its workers, kind of the anti-WalMart. 

When you say this, however, you, frankly, lose credibility with me:

the libertarians like myself trust business because for them to get rich and be successful they must take care of the consumer and laborer

What the hell kind of drugs have the larouche people been giving you!?

Look at the agricultural conglomerates, for example:  they don't care what ecological disasters their farming techniques cause, or what poisons they release into groundwater, if it ain't regulated, they'll poision away.  And these guys pay their laborers nothing.  But it's a better nothing than they get in mexico, so we have an endless stream of illegal immigrants who would rather slave for $5.15/hr than $8/day.

Dude, you're a good guy, but the Econ 101 stuff they show you in the "Executive Intelligence Review", doesn't take in to acccount the reality of Corporate Socialism and none of it takes actual human welfare into account.  Why?  Because all of these critical issues, consumer protections, environmental protections, labor rights, and general human welfare happen outside of market forces as externalities and cannot be effectively modeled.

The idealized world of tax free economics doesn't exist any more than unicorns or mermaids.  While I enjoy a good fairy tale as much as anyone, I can't stand here and let you denounce the triumphant accomplishments of the likes of LBJ, FDR or Teddy Roosevelt, just because an ideology gives you a nice perspective from which to make an argument.

Take your perspective out of the picture for a second.  Now spend 10 years trying to look through the eyes of every human being on the planed.  Try to see what the world is like for a whore in Bangladesh, or a steel worker from Flint, or a rice farmer in Thailand, or a jazz musician in New Orleans.

Then come back and talk to me about how Billionaires shouldn't have to pay their way, or how it's all just market forces that drive small farmers out of business, or that corporate criminals deserve a cushier ride, or that Dick Cheny is entitled to have his Enroy/ExxonMobile buddies get together and rape the nation with behind closed doors energy policies.

See, you may be fighting a clean battle, but you're fighting it for people who care about money first last and always.

There's more to life, and only a government controlled by the people can protect the people against their like, because alone, we're too weak to keep them in check.



JoshuaBGood: I doub (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
JoshuaBGood:  I doubt anything will change your mind that government "botches everything" yet the private sector has everyone's best interests at heart (you ARE kidding, right?!?).  However, I would refer you to this Top 50 list of "Government's Greatest Hits" by Paul Light of the Brookings Institute.  Just a few  examples, keeping in mind that none of these were achieved to some impossible standard of metaphysical perfection:  1) Rebuild Europe after WWII (Marshall Plan, Bretton-Woods, NATO); 2) Expand voting rights (Civil Rights Act 1964, Voting Rights Act 1965), 4) Reduce disease (Polio Vaccine 1955, National Cancer Act 1971), 5) Reduce Workplace Discrimination (Age Discrimination Act 1967, Americans with Disabilites Act 1990), and 12) Support Veterans' Readjustment and Training (GI Bill).  I would add a few more, including the development of the internet, exploring the universe (Apollo, Hubble, Mars landers, etc.), cleaning up the air and water that had been polluted by BUSINESS which did NOT take "externalities" or peoples' interests into account.  Yeah, that darn government really botches everything it does! Jeez.


like i said i don't (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
like i said i don't differ with you on the ends but the means...as for the laundry list of legislation you mention lowell i am well aware of...i teach AP am. history in one of the best HS in NYC...JMHS (check the staticstics)...the marshall plan was a joke...see eastern europe and east germany...and could go on and discuss the others and do inthe hist. class but don't have the time now...of course private business is not perfect...but it has consistently been better...once again it is in business' best interest to look out for the consumer (rule see customer always right rule) and labor...let me repeat labor in a free market...is never exploitation but can be bought and sold like any other commodity...(i agree that corp.s in the US have many unfair advantages mostly based in govt. regulation...i also could describe these instances in detail but have not the time...except to mention in passing...postal service, health care, insurance, pharmeceuticals, etc...

BTW ...the Great Society was as failure...as was the New Deal none of which achieved the desried ends...and headed the nation in a spiral doomed for bankruptedness

the idea josh is morality...the govt. exists to insure certain basic (basic) morality...ie no killing...enslalving...stealing...etc...you may contextualize this as protection...but said protection has no meaning outside of moral context...protection means nothing by itself...protection for who the (the teen mother) or the unborn baby....protection for who, the slave-owners right to own slaves or the slaves right to private property (himself)
i must stop and go to church on this lovely sunday morning
have a great day
joshuabgood



Joshb: An asserti (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Joshb:

An assertion without support requires no supporting evidence to refute - therefore the following are self-evident:

Marshall Plan was one of the great achievements of western civilization.  Hitler would never have risen except from the poverty after WWI. 

Business does a better job of taking care of people than government?  I think you see government as like this big soviet KGB overlordship, which is exaxtly what it's becomming thanks to the Conservative movement. 

However, if you take a look at the dramatic revolution of wealth and prosperity brought about thanks to state sponsored education, and the social security safety net, you may need to reconsider your position.  Business has no interest in taking care of it's communities, what the hell has Exxon done for me lately? 

Moreover, how many people have died thanks to the poisons created by Monsanto.  What public interest does it serve to start a war in Iraq if only to give no-bid contracts to Halliburton, and what customer, shareholder, employee, supplier or neighbor of Enron would possibly support your insane assertion that Businesses taek care of people?!

"The customer is always right"?  may represent corporate ideology at its best, but there's no mandate for it, and people get screwed by companies all the time.  Predatory lending, cheap production, rampant pollution, defaulted pensions I mean, quit the whitewash.

let me repeat labor in a free market?is never exploitation but can be bought and sold like any other commodity

Flat wrong.  The coercive power of large manufacturing did such a horrendous job of abusing worker freedoms that FDR had to create the National Labor Relations Board just to keep them in check.  The supreme court supported a minimum wage, because it became clear that the failure of businesses to fairly pay workers created such a burden to society that the absence of a minimum wage became an unnatural subsidy.

More friggin koolaid.

BTW ?the Great Society was as failure?as was the New Deal none of which achieved the desried ends?and headed the nation in a spiral doomed for bankruptedness

The Great Society was stopped dead in its tracks by conservative opposition, and ask anyone who's ever been in a union or anyone whos ever gone to school in america, or anyone who got money from the GI bill, or anyone who gets workers comp or Social security if the New Deal was a failure.

Please never try to say that again, it's sick and wrong and just plain unsubstancitated by facts.

the govt. exists to insure certain basic (basic) morality?ie no killing?enslalving?stealing?etc?you may contextualize this as protection?but said protection has no meaning outside of moral context

Wrong.

Government does not exist to ensure morality.  Government exists to "provide for the commond defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty".

I see no mention of Jesus in there.  Nope, not anywhere.  Buddah? not mentioned?  The Lord God Yawhe?  not there either.  How about Vishnu?  mmm... NOPE.

Your so-called moral context is an immoral attempt to subvert freedom of worship, and the Conservative movement has pushed that envelope as far as moderate Americans will allow.

In sum: 

The "NO-Tax" movement is a drive for immoral, irresponsibile government.

Morality is a never-ending search, that the constitution exists to protect.  Just because you've found your answers doesn't give you the right to rob others of the freedom of that search.

Economic security is the true basis of national security.  As the rich have gotten richer and the poor poorer, we have seen the results worldwide:  less security.

The new worldwide robber barrons have ideologies like yours to thank for their rise to power.  The poor, suffering, starving, masses in America and around the world have those same ideologies to thandk for their lot.

As a moral individual, do you beleive that this vision of the world is acceptable?  As a christian, do you believe that a world of haves and have-nots is truly supported by the teachings of Jesus Christ?

The purpose of Government is to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty.  I understand that to mean that government should protect us in our search for virtue and morality but not impose it.

What a beautiful day this has been.  I hope you enjoyed your day at church.  My prayers this morning were, as always, for those in need.



Is this a private fi (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
Is this a private fight, or can anybody get in it? Even a former Republican?

New subject: NO big bureaucracy is truly efficient and error-free, whether political (government) or private (international corporations). Therefore, while I believe in the free enterprise system and a market economy, I also believe in (limited) regulation thereof. Without it you get unintended and awful consequences like Enron corruption, rape of the environment for short-term personal gain over long-term sustainable economy, drugs for orphan not being developed because they aren't "profitable," and so on.

Also, briefly, one of the purposes of this government of ours, as established in our Constitution, is to "promote the general welfare" for We, the People. Where was the promotion of our general welfare in the Bush Administration's constant attack on the environment, budgetary neglect of our vital infrastructure, outsourcing of our industrial base, and their piss-poor Homeland Security and FEMA planning and preparation?

For four to five days what we saw in New Orleans was exactly what Mr. Good promotes: "You're on your own, you luckless, feckless little guys. No help here."



well evidently...ted (joshuabgood - 4/4/2006 11:27:59 PM)
well evidently...teddy still didn't read the first section...nobody wants anybody to starve or die...it is a disagreement over the means...

"hitler arose due to poverty"

i have never heard a more simplistic and misguided understanding of history

no one mentioned jesus or the other god's you mentioned...i don't know what the paranioa is about...however one must determine right from wrong...i hear you argue that big business treats labor wrong (see immoral, no difficulty here)...we just disagree over the things that are immoral...personally i think objective morality is irrefutible...otherwise the roundly despised Hitler is a good guy and the allies have no business imposing there "moral values" on the Nazi's...and Wilberforce and lincoln had no business forcing the morality onto the Brits and Am.s respectively...

the objectives of the New deal were to end the Great Depression...said objectives were abismally failed...in fact one can make a goood argument he stretched a normal panic into a 14 year debacle...the depression itself was caused by the Fed.s monkeying with the interest rates in the 20's and shortchanging the money supply...

The Great Society was and is a joke...

the progressive myth is the government can fix any problem with the right (morality by the way) laws and programs...they are attempting to fix wrongs (more morality) BTW...

we disagree on the means...

you missed the fact that i said free market not coercive...also nobody likes sex slaves in Bangladesh...i think if a person wishes to work making sweaters for 35c an hour...if that is their best option they should be allowed...

Walmart by the way has created more jobs and helped more people through affordable products than anything you or i will ever do...if you dislike them however don't shop there...if they abuse labor...don't work there...start your own business

A good book you should read josh is The Myth of the Robber Barons, Burton Fulsom Jr. lays to waste a lot of progressive myths...

really josh...i don't see how you can argue that law is not based in objective morality...if not why are you trying to convince people...for their morality (the conservatives) is as good as the next guys (liberals)...but you believe that their is an objective morality to which you subscribe that is better than the conservatives...we are both arguing for different moral approaches and interpretations to what you call protection...which as i explained means nothing outside of moral interpretation(see protection of infants or teen mothers...slaves or slave owners...labor or owners...and on and on and on)

for teddy one more time...i don't want to starve people or let them die in New Orleans but instead feel like the federal govt. is not the best vehicle to solve these problems as it has shown repeatedly (see NO 2005)...people should reach out personally and privately in these situations

joshuabgood



Excellent post, Josh (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
Excellent post, Josh.  As I've said before, you're a freakin' genius, and this post shows what I mean. 

Now, I can't wait for, well, NON geniuses like Dorsett and other such trolls lurking about to come here and explain how conservative philosophy really, truly is compassionate, blah blah blah.  Barf.



Josh: You Rock! Ve (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
Josh:  You Rock!  Very well put!  Thank you!  I think you said it for all of us!


I am really glad to (Hank - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
I am really glad to see that you lay the blame for New Orleans on "hypocritical Moralizers who profane the scriptures they claim to champion. I'll be sure and let my freinds at my church about this website, and what Democrats really think about peaple of faith. Please continue to let you true Democratic "colors" come out so that we may make a better choise come election day. Also, please continue to call peaple who don't have the same opinion as you "misguided." Continue to do what you do! As a voter in the Commonwealth of Virginia, I applaud your success in helping me not to choose Tim Kaine as the next governor.


Hank: I invite yo (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
Hank:

I invite you and everyone from your church to question whether the likes of Pat Robertson actually represent Christianity or defame it.

Does calling for the assassination of a foreign leader represent the spirit of Christianity? 

Pat Robertson is a leading national Republican.  He funneled thousands of dollars into the coffers of officials who successfully divert funds from critical projects to local pork or corporate giveaways. 

How much money did the Bush Administration take from Levee projects in New Orleans?  How much money did Pat Robertson spend to get Bush elected?

As a person of faith myself I've been shocked and appalled at the blatant malace with which so-called Christian leaders have abused the faith put in them by the truly faithful.

These opportunists offer absolution and abuse the tenants of religion by using it to incite the least spiritual feelings in their followers:  selfishness, hate, greed.  Where is Agape in the rhetoric of the extremists who abuse their followers for political gain?

As an American and a Virginian and a Progressive, I fight to protect your freedom to worship as you see fit.  I fight for responsible government and for investing in the future.  Does Pat Robertson do as much? 

You don't need to be honest with me, but you need to be honest with yourself.



Josh, I respectfully (Hank - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
Josh, I respectfully disagree with you on a number of points. First-  You incorrectly assume that just because I'm a Christian that I support Pat Robertson? And how did he get into this conversation anyway? I thought we were talking about New Orleans? Pat Robertson is not my pastor, nor does my money go to him in any form. I have never watched the 700 club and would rather spend my time doing other things besides watching TV - any TV.

Second, if you want to find out what happened to funds for the levee, there is a great piece in the Washington Post titled "Money Flowed to Questionable Projects." Notice, it is the Washington Post - hardly a right wing paper.

Third, does it really matter how much money Pat Robertson spent to get Bush elected? What about George Soros? I care not about both - they are Americans and can do with thier money as they please.

As a person of faith myself, I'm shocked and appalled at how much hate of Christians there is in this country, especially from other Christians who have different views. You want to talk about honesty? Let's talk about honesty. The Democratic party and it's supporters have a severe dislike for right wing Christians who home school thier kids, or send them to christian school, and have the audacity to teach thier children "creationism." Can we be honest about that?

How is it that you, as a progressive, fight for my rights to worship as I see fit? Does restricing what my pastor preaches from the pulpit protecting my worship rights? Does restricing where my children pray protecting my rights? Do you really expect me to believe that the AU protect my religous rights? Can we be honest about that as well?

Look, I'm not trying to get in a flame war with anybody. But I'm not fooled by Tim Kaine - which is the real purpose of this blog. He has his faith, I have mine. It is not his faith I question, it is his policies I disagree with. The same for you.



Hank: One of my f (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
Hank:

One of my favorite things about blogging here is the respect for varying viewpoints.  Where I believe politics has gone wrong in this country, is that it no longer discusses right and wrong, but only good and evil. 

See the difference? 

Just because I dissent from the official dogma of an administration doesn't make me a traitor.  Just because you dissent from a particular dogma of a church doesn't make you a heretic.  There are thousands of sects in Christianity, and thousands of political perspectives. 

If only one faith is right and only one political viewpoint is right, then how full is hell going to be?  How astronomically certain can we be that politics is forever doomed?

One party (The State) one faith (NONE) was basically what the Soviet Union stood for, those internal contradictions destroyed it. 

When we disagree, we disagree.  That's America!

When I wrote the quote you found so upsetting:

hypocritical Moralizers who profane the scriptures they claim to champion.

I was thinking of Pat Robertson specifically, as well as an entire class of opportunistic hypocrites who use the politics of good and evil to get elected, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.

So let's be honest:

You wrote: 

The Democratic party and it?s supporters have a severe dislike for right wing Christians who home school thier kids, or send them to christian school, and have the audacity to teach thier children ?creationism.? Can we be honest about that?

That's not true of me, and it's not true of any other Democrats I know.  I'm a big fan of homeschooling. I have nothing against anyone who homeschools.  Whether they are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists... fine with me.  My wife wants us to homeschool our son.  We're both so busy, I don't know which of us will have to quit our jobs, but it's something I'd be willing to do if I could make it work.

Teach your kids "creationism", fine with me.  Teach them up is down and down is up, teach them sanskrit.  Teach YOUR OWN kids whatever you want to, but that's where it ends. 

Don't try to foist "creationism" off as science under the orwellian label of "intelligent design" and force my kids to learn it.  Your freedoms shouldn't infringe on mine, and I don't want my kids confusing science with theology, even if its a theology in which I believe. 

That's why Christians, myself included are getting such a bad rap in this country, because of how oppressively aggressive Christian dogma has become and because it has come to threaten the basic freedoms guaranteed by the Founding.

I object to a particular Christian leadership so hungry for power that they have convinced their followers that Christians are somehow treated like second class citizens. 

Here's a great John Stewart quote:  "I too dream of a day when an openly Christian president might be elected in America, or 43 of them... Consecutively."

C'mon.  Unless you want to overturn the constitution, this will remain a pluralistic society which means that we have to accomodate universal "freedom to worship", and Christians get everything they need and more.  Where's our inclusiveness?  Wheres our compassion?

These so-called leaders are just playing "good and evil" politics in order to gain power.  It's sick, disgusting, and wrong.

Whenever a "Christian" politician starts wailing about how put-upon and downtrodden Christians are in America, ask yourself one of these questions:

Can anyone think of a day in our national calendar when Federal and State offices are closed because of a Christian Holiday?
Can anyone think of one President or Vice President, or any member of the President's cabinet who was a church-going Christian?
Can anyone name a Representative or Senator in Congress who has not been forced to resign once he or she became openly Christian?
Can anyone think of a state level representative who openly practices Christianity?
Can anyone think of a state or federal judge who has been appointed to the bench or elected despite being Christian?
Can anyone think of any U.S. diplomats who retained their jobs once it was discovered that they were raised Christian?
Can anyone think of any Christian symbols that are mounted and celebrated in our nation's capital on an annual basis?
Can anyone think of a single town in America where it is safe to attend a Christian church?
Can anyone think of a single place in America where Christian Churches have not been the subject of regular abuse from the public?
Can anyone think of a single  U.S. University that does not have a quota system to guard against the hiring of too many Christian professors?
Can anyone think of a supermarket in America where Christians are allowed to purchase food that meets their dietary requirements?
Can anyone think of a bookstore in America that sells the Christian Bible or other Christian texts?
Can anyone name a musician--alive or dead--who was allowed to sing songs in public or sell music based on Christian themes?
Can anyone name a single movie in America, popular or unpopular, that was based on a Christian topic and that more than a few people have actually heard of?
Can anyone think of a single Christian organization that has not been banned by law from walking door to door and telling Americans about Jesus Christ and  the gospels?
Can anyone name an instance where a Christian stood on a public street corner, preached the gospel to passersby, but was not instantly arrested by the police?
Can anyone think of any museum in America that has been courageous enough to display a painting or sculpture that contained Christian imagery?
Can anyone think of any shows on TV that have Christian themes  or talk about Christianity in an overt way--and which have actually been allowed to stay production longer than a few weeks?
Can anyone think of anywhere in America where it is possible to turn on the radio and hear Christian themes, ideas or gospel?
Can anyone name a website that discusses Christianity, but which has not been shut down by the government?
Can anyone think of a U.S. airline that has not had at least one incident where a passenger was removed from a flight for looking too Christan?
Can anyone think of a single instant where the U.S. government sent so much as one official representative to attend the funeral of a well-known Christian leader?
Can anyone name one Christian friend or relative who has not been denied a promotion because they were Christian?
Can anyone name one corporation in America that does not actively prevent its managers from hiring Christian employees?
Can anyone think of a major restaurant chain in America that his not violated the rights of Christians by denying them service?
Can anyone think of a single social club in America that does not have a clause in its club charter preventing Christians from becoming members?
Can anyone think of a hotel or resort in America that does not actively discourage reservations from Christians?
Can anyone think of any place in America where citizens feel safe enough to wear jewelry that contains Christian symbols?
Can anyone name a single college in America where Christian students are not in the minority?
Can anyone think of a hotel or motel in America that allows Christians to place so much as one Christian Bible in one bedside drawer in one of their rooms?
Can anyone name one part of America where being outwardly Christian is looked upon as a good thing? - Jeffrey Feldman

Then ask yourself if Christianity is being served by those who use it for political gain, or if those politicians are being served.  Ask yourself if American Freedom is being served.

Ok, more honesty:

Does restricing what my pastor preaches from the pulpit protecting my worship rights? Does restricing where my children pray protecting my rights? Do you really expect me to believe that the AU protect my religous rights? Can we be honest about that as well?

How is your pastor's preaching restricted?  As long as he's not calling for assassinations or "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater", he's free to say whatever he likes.  Freedom of speech and freedom to worship are what we're all about.  That's what Progressivism is, that's America!

How are your children's prayers being curtailed?  As long as your children's prayers don't interfere with my children's prayers, they're free to do as they like, and I'll always fight for those rights.  Who wouldn't?

If, by the AU, you mean American's United for Separation of Church and State, I have no comment (because I didn't even know they existed until I just googled them).  If, however, in particular you are referring to the separation of church and state, I do fully believe that it protects your religious rights.  Imagine if the Taliban became enormously powerful in America, just for instance.  Now imagine that they decided that all of a sudden a radical brand of Islam was the only legal religion.  Imagine that one.  I think in that case I would honestly be searching for, hoping for, praying for, wishing for, and regretting the loss of the Separation of Church and State.

Well, there's some honesty for you.  Real opinions, real perspectives, my own from the what I like to call the "common sense center".

If you don't mind I think I'm going to *snip* these last few comments and post them on my blog: commonsensecenter.blogspot.com. 

Thanks for engaging in this dialog, Hank.  I really appreciate you sharing your views, concerns, arguments.  Whether we agree or disagree, it's great talking with you.

God Bless America!



New York: 9/11, New (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:00 PM)
New York: 9/11, New Orleans 8/29 - Feeling safer yet?

It's clearly time to kick the bums out nationwide.  It's clearly time for some leadership from the left and some direction to counter the hapless frailty of the wreckless right.

It would be easy to blame Katrina's aftermath on a single failure of leadership, specifically George Bush, but that doesn't do it.  This is the result of 30 years of wilful neglect at the hands of the "no tax" crowd.

The radicals who run the GOP have now created a kinder, gentler PR machine that sells absolution for our most base instincts in exchange for votes.  Here's  aquote from a blog that says it better than me:

The product the GOP has been selling is absolution-- not the old-fashioned kind, purchased through self-sacrifice and dedication-- but a cheap, outsourced knock-off kind of absolution that says, "its okay, we do it, too. We won't tell."

How hard is it really to convince people that being selfish is the way to go? Where is the higher calling in predatory greed? What invention is required to pander to the lust for revenge?. Where is the challenge in stoking people's fears about personal safety, or in feeding the flames of prejudice?

Its not hard to aim for the lowest common denominator and that is exactly what the GOP has been doing. Rather than hatching a plan to make America a better place then convincing the public to support it, they have instead made a science of putting lipstick on a pig. They package greed and avarice and sell it as "sound market policy." They bind up cruelty and fear and slap on a label marked "national security." They take bigotry and hatred and push it out the door in a glossy package marked "traditional family values." There are no new ideas; only our darkest human frailties made bland with a double scoop of political weasel-words and sexed up with Madison Ave. sizzle.

It looks like the death toll from Katrina could top 40,000.

It's time to kick the bums out.



Yeah, Kilgore has sa (Vineyard - 4/4/2006 11:28:01 PM)
Yeah, Kilgore has said the same thing the whole time Lowell. He made clear when this controversy first began that if the day laborer sites would screen for proof of residency then he would have no problem with them. He wants to help LEGAL immigrants find employment, but he will not facilitate ILLEGAL immigration. Pretty clear. The Daily Press is a rabid Democrat paper in Hampton, they will attack Kilgore for anything he does. I know that works out well for your purposes, but it doesn't mean they're right. On this one they are clearly not.


Dorsett: Just FYI, (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:28:01 PM)
Dorsett:  Just FYI, I didn't write this article, so you might want to address your comments to the author, Josh.  Anyway, this whole attempt to defend Kilgore's xenophobia is utterly ridiculous, and I'm sure you know it but are just being a (too) loyal Republican.  As you know, immigration and border security are FEDERAL issues.  Jerry Kilgore's just playing crude, cynical, pander-to-humans'-worst-instincts politics here.  If you don't get it, you don't get it.


Wait a minute here, (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:28:01 PM)
Wait a minute here, Dumber. This begins to sound like the Bush spin on disaster control. And the truth is, for immigration, it IS both ways. The federal government is in charge of immigration and controlling our borders, and enforcing immigration regulations (when they get around to it, after the Republican big money cotributors get finished with exploiting the underpaid immigrants). And the legal immigrant residents of local jurisdictions have to find jobs, and do so at these ad hoc but functioning job halls (like the old days when a contractor went to a union hall for workers---before they scragged the unions). This  practice has sometimes resulted in uncomfortable and messy gatherings in residential neighborhoods, so the good citizens of Herndon bethought themselves: how do we solve this problem in an equitable, honest, fair way? Try to keep in mind the distinction between legals and illegals here. In Jerry's case he understands quite well when it suits him, and not so well when he can demagogue it.  But we're on to him.


Kilgore has been con (Dumber Now - 4/4/2006 11:28:01 PM)
Kilgore has been consistent on this one.  Respect legal immigration and those who have taken this path, but don't encourage illegal immigration and spend taxpayers' money when you do it.

You know where the flip-flop is?  It's with your guy.  First, it's a federal problem; then it's a local problem.  Tim Kaine can't seem to decide.  As long as it's not HIS problem, I guess he's happy. 



I know it's just an (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
I know it's just an anonymous posting. I just personally believe if you're going to say something, you should stand up straight, talk so others can hear you and state your name for the record. If you're too embarrased to state your name, maybe you don't believe the BS you're spouting.


Hey, Steve Nelson, I (Duke - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Hey, Steve Nelson, I just checked my local phone directory and found three different Steve Nelsons. I reckon there are probably dozens of Steve Nelsons here in Virginia.

So, I was just wondering... would you mind posting your home address and telephone number? You know, just for the record...



Woah... didn't mean (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Woah... didn't mean to pile on there, Brave Hart.  Steve and I must have been writing at the same time.

Anyway, we can't afford to lose time. 

Remember the anthrax investigation?
Remember the abu ghrab investigation?
Remember the Downing Street Memo?

The news cycle goes too fast to let this kind of thing go.  I mean, in 48 hours the Bush Administration may have killed another few thousand Americans, and people could forget.

People do forget.

Steve:  It's just anonymous posting.  Sometimes a bit of anyonmity gets the expressive juices flowing. 



Brave Hart: Is th (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Brave Hart:

Is that water heavy? 

You know, the water you're carrying for the White House.  How's that feel? Breakin' yer back yet?

Maybe you missed my little point #1:

1. Mr. Bush, Scott Mclellan, and all the rest will play the ?time? card: ?This isn?t the time for finger pointing.?

Jeez... talk about a short attention span.  I didn't think we'd get part of the "all the rest" posting as our second comment.

This isn't the time for a "time out" this is the time for accountability!

Listen, this is what needs to be done.

1.  We need to do what Mr. Bush didn't do for days - help the people in the Gulf who were left to die.
2.  We need to get the survivor's lives in order (housing, food, jobs) and fund the resurrection of Evangeline.
3.  We need to make those responsible for this abysmal, repulsive, national disgrace pay dearly, truly, forcefully.

We need justice for New Orleans and there's no time to wait.



Why don't people wit (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Why don't people with opposing views ever post their names on this blog? Why all the secrecy? Just because you have a different opinion doesn't mean you need to hide yourself.


Brave Hart- What (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Brave Hart-

What do you think these posts are doing? If you're a citizen in a country with a freedom of speech, this IS how you prepare for the next catastrophe. Our government officials royally screwed our fellow countrymen. That makes me mad. Why aren't you mad??!

Few of us can directly change the plans of FEMA. So taking a breath and shutting up won't do anything. I say do the opposite. Yell! Shout! Scream! What we can do is show a little emotion when Americans are hurt by the actions of our governement. If my house was destroyed, I'd sure love to have you stand up to our government for me.

You want action plans? How about we teach our kids hurricane drills like they do with fire drills? You don't like that? How about we have buses ready to pick up those that can't drive? Not good enough? How about we reverse the highways sooner so more cars can get out? How about we stockpile some food in every state so if this happens, someone can deliver the food? Oh wait, FEMA does that already? WHY DID THEY WAIT A WEEK TO DELIVER IT?!

You want us to breath and make plans? I'll give you as many as you want. But since you and I don't work for FEMA, it won't be useful, nothing will come of them. So if it doesn't bother you too much, i'm just going to be mad and shout about it.



By the way... this i (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
By the way... this isn't the time for finger pointing.

I've already heard both Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh trying to lay the blame on local and state government. The frustrating part is that they're partially correct, it wasn't *only* the federal government at fault. Even Mayor Nagin has stated that federal, state AND local governments are all to blame. Mayor Nagin  said "even I am partially to blame, I could have shouted louded for more help" (or something like that)

What really annoys me is when officials don't own up to their fuck-ups. Bush wouldn't be hated so much if he said stuff like

"Look... I screwed up, my staff screwed up, we're designing a plan for next time. If you want to ride me out on a rail, fine, but until then I'm going to go search for stranded people."



Time out! You guy (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Time out!

You guys may be right, you may be wrong.

But maybe we should all take a deep breath, work at the task of getting help up and running for the victims/survivors.

Their are children at risk,(already being preyed on by pedophiles) seperated from their caregivers. Sick, Elderly, and emotionally distraught, and violated people who are trying to pull it back together.

I believe their is plenty of blame to go around including those of us who were ingnorant this was going to happen and were not sounding the alarm sooner.

So let's take a deep breath. Prepare for the next catastrophe. Sound that ALARM and pray for guidance



ANYONE who still wan (Alex - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
ANYONE who still wants to place all of the blame on the local officials needs to watch this interview of Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard.

http://www.zippyvideos.com/5608100891049646/broussardonmtp/

Watch him describe his workers who gave it their all, with resources limited due to the damage to their infastructure, while having their own homes damaged or destroyed, and most having family and friends missing...and be sure to pay attention to the last person he describes at the end.

Then come back and tell me that the local officials should get all of the blame.



Hey guys I appreciat (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:02 PM)
Hey guys I appreciate where you coming from. I admire the emotion. But attacking me is surley going to do little to change things.

I have been writing the Whitehouse and LA Governor since I saw them putting people in the Superdome with a Cat 5 coming dead on.

Like I said there is enough blame to go around for everyone involved.

Voting is the only way to change things. And letting the world know what is really going on so they can make informed voting decisions.

Emotion will get you killed! Read your history.
Rational, intellectual, responses will get you much further.

Remember in Braveheart his uncle tells him: "First I'll teach you to use this (brain), then I'll teach you use that(sword)."

Just my humble opinion. Freeeeee Dommmmmm!



KathyinBlacksburg: W (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
KathyinBlacksburg: Well Put!

What she said!



Living in vulnerable (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
Living in vulnerable Northern Virginia, a likely target for terrorists and for hurricanes (given the new weather patterns) I'd like to see a reasonable evacuation plan. Back during the Cold War when we were stationed at Fort Benning, and had friends in Berlin (remember the Berlin Air Lift?) and West Germany, all military dependents had to keep a week's supply of necessities in the trunks of their cars; if the Russians crossed the borders we were told we could NOT pick up our children (the government would evacuate them separately), then we were to get the hell out of the way immediately so the troops could move up.  We were told where we were going to go, and the receiving end was supposedly prepared to receive us. We had a buddy system in place, too, and a way for everyone to participate, not just the higher ranks or the rich. Of course, this meant that the troops would have no family worries and could concentrate on their jobs, so it was of military benefit to do it this way.


So, to start a conve (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
So, to start a conversation, what should we be doing or compelling elected officials to do, so that this horror is never repeated?


After re-reading the (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
After re-reading the letter, I believe that the sense of community being encouraged is exactly what the so-called "liberals" HAVE been talking about in everything from Social Security ("we are all Americans, we're all in this together, the American family takes care of its own") to urging sustainable environmental policies and alternative fuels to building adequate personal and social infrastructure (like good public education and transportation for example) that enables our social AND investment capital to be used and developed to its fullest so as to benefit all of society in the long run. I finally realized that the social Darwinism and feudal heirarchical so-called conservative approach was in fact a sort of Christian heresey, substituting greed and Mammon for public good. Would Jesus throw the money changers out of the Republican Temple?  I suspect so. Yet don't we all want what's best for the future of our children?


Teddy, thanks for re (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
Teddy, thanks for reading and for your brilliant resonses. 

We all want what's best for the future of our children.  Unfortunately, there are some who don't want what's best for the future of other people's children.  That's the difference, that's why we're Democrats, and why they're killing our country.



Out of pure curiousi (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
Out of pure curiousity, from a literal perspective, how true is this? I know he's put a lot of money into VA's roads, but has any of it actually gone to a bridge? haha


That's it in a nutsh (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
That's it in a nutshell.  We need a bridgebuilder, not a divider.  Tim Kaine's the only bridgebuilder running for Guv.


Way off topic here, (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:04 PM)
Way off topic here, but key, I think:

It's so fantastic to have such brilliant ladies visiting our little corner of the blogsphere.  Jen, Kathy, Teddy, Kate... It just struck me that, conventional wisdom aside, this isn't a boy's club at all.

Respect for Women's Rights is a big part of why we vote for Democrats, and why Republicans don't understand how to lead this nation.



Nice!!! (Ben - 4/4/2006 11:28:21 PM)


I like how one of th (Genevieve - 4/4/2006 11:28:21 PM)
I like how one of the news items is "Democrats hope to raise Kaine in Virginia." :D


James Young, a name- (blueinthecommonwealth_VA - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
James Young, a name-calling arch-conservative who's best argument is pointing at people and saying "socialist!" vs. Josh and Lowell, two men with 25 times the moral clarity and political intuitiveness.

Catch it tonight on HBO, if you can catch it quick enough.

'Cause I'm picking Josh and Lowell by  knockout in the first round.



Gosh, it it's not ea (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
Gosh, it it's not easy being "green."  Huh, James?

It's just too amazing to watch you defend these guys (cronies and corrupters).  And there ya go again... what's with this nonsensical name-calling?  Socialism?  BHAHAHAHAH.  Do you hear yourself? The measure of your political bankruptcy is when you resort to this complete fabrication.  Things aren't going well for you, so you start up this nonsense?  Do you have anything meaningful left to say?  Anything?

PS Yes, James.  We all do typos.  That goes with typing quickly and having real lives too.  We are not getting paid and all that.  But I don't think you want us to start nit-picking your posts for extraneous stuff.  It would be fun though.



Two lobotomies would (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
Two lobotomies would be overkill James.

The GOP is saying "let the process work" now, because they had their "protect our criminal leader" house rule rescinded by a recent, albeit rare, show of strength by house Dems.

Clearly investigations go along with high office, but why are you whining about it.  The GOP Culture of Corruption has taken this country into disaster after disaster.  Lies that get us into a war of choice, no-bid contracts while Cheny's still pulling in hundreds of thousands of dollars from his Halliburton connections, the destruction of environmental and consumer protections, the end of workers rights as we know them, a trillion dollar utility giveaway to monopolist power brokers in exchange for GOP lunches, cronyism that leaves FEMA so weak it can't stop thousands from dying and promises to put GWB's girlfriend on the Supreme Court...

It's endless.

Meanwhile the Middle Class is under assault every day, we've racked up $3trillion in debt and $400 Billion is being added every year, Bush's economy hasn't created a single nongovernment job, and is losing ground to the 150,000 new job we need to create each year to stay afloat.  Meanwhile there are 48 Million without healthcare and somewhere between 35 and 50 million living under poverty conditions: most of them white.  Gangs are everywhere, the borders are wide open, we have our own Viet Nam...

I mean it never ends. 

And you want to blame it all on Bill Clinton.  I've got news for you Mr. Young, Bill didn't sleep on the Memo that warned about 9/11.  Bill took the Reagan/GHWB deficits and created a robust economy, streamlined government, balanced budgets and massive surpluses. 

If there's any bedwetting, whining or heart bleeding happening in this country it's among conservatives who are watching an incredible shrinking president suck wind while his promises all turn out to be lies and his nation comes apart at the seams because of his abject failure.

Thanks for stopping by, Mr. Young, but the PR driven aristocratic lie machine's on its way out, and the conservative movement is unsustainable.



James: The right (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
James:

The right wing created the "guilty until proven unable to get the bastards off your back" politics.  Your favorite whipping bubba was presumed guilty by your cohorts for years and years and years.  Y'all never let up, so don't go cryin' like a little baby.

This is the most corrupt washington syndicate in history.  Bush's government procurement arrested!?  Al Capone would be jealous of what Tom DeLay has accomplished.  There's even a murder-for-hire investigation tied to his bagman Abramoff.  Yeah, keep telling yourself that Frist will get off.  Frist already lied to prosecutors.  He said he never knew what was going on in his blind trust and they have documented proof that he got dozens of written notifications.  Even us civilians know a lie when we hear one, although you pros may prefer to call it perjury.

James... get over yourself.  The Republican Culture of Corruption is going down.  Jump ship while there's time.



A republic depends o (Teddy - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
A republic depends on having a strong middle class, and the American middle class has by any measure been evaporating along the edges, and is definitely being squeezed and reduced by the policies and attitudes of the current Republicans. Representative Emmanuel hit the nail on the head. All the whining, sneering, and blaming of Clinton from the fall of even the tiniest of sparrows coming from the right wingnuts confirms this statement. Go Ram!


James: Besides a bl (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
James:  Besides a blow job, which admittedly is illegal in Virgnia (even between married heterosexuals), what "proven corruption" are you talking about with regard to Bill Clinton?  Anything like outing a CIA undercover agent, or lying to take the country to war, or giving war-profiteering sweetheart deals to Halliburton, or stocking the government with incompetent cronies?  Whoops, I forgot, it's all Bill Clinton's fault. Must be why he and George HW Bush are best buds.  Or have you been watching "The Clinton Chronicles" again?


ooohh! I just found (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
ooohh!  I just found out that the money laundering charge could carry a sentence of life in prison for Tom DeLay.

Ouch!

Maybe he can run his bagmen from inside the joint.



James, Haven't you (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:28 PM)
James,
Haven't you gotten tired of oversimplifying complex solutions to difficult problems and defending the same tired, corrupt politicians?

Tom DeLay, the highest ranking member of congress ever indicted.(tm) 2 TIMES OVER  Is campaign finance fraud conspiracy a felony?  What about money laundering?

Bill Frist, the Senate's own Martha Stewart.(tm)

Can you honestly believe that Bush and Cheny didn't know about Rove and Libby outing Valerie Plame?  Didn't Colin Powell see them all read the same memo on Air Force One?

Anyway, James, while you attemt to smear, excoriate, and scapgoat Democrats with your weak-kneed defamation of "Socialism", I've stopped referring to you as a Fascist.  What you are is a highly paid, right-wing idealogue. 

Come back from the dark-side.  America needs strong, capable voices to protect the people from the abuses of the rich and powerful.  C'mon James, I know they pay you well, but wouldn't you rather work for a more prosperous America instead of a richer freeloading Republican party?



OOOhhh.... James (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:29 PM)
OOOhhh....

James...

What's that over there?  Is it a socialist?  ooh!

Look out!  There's some commies around here somewhere.  Ohh there's one!  yeah, it's a commie... go get it!

Oh... goodness... there may be some killer commies around here. 

Yikes!

Just because you're paranoid, ignorant, and delusional, doesn't mean your not still an idiot.

There's never been a Government that has created more Government waste, or destroyed the future prospects of Americans than your so-called Conservative Movement's hero George W. Bush. 

The real challenge of Government is to identify the the best environment for broad prosperity, eliminate waste and act responsibly.  Like maybe Bill Clinton did.  That's not socialism, that's America and that Smart, Responsible Government.

What's the difference between a fascist and a radical conservative?

A fascist knows what he's doing.

Thanks for that one, James.  I'll have to use it in the future.



Quack, Quack (Brian - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)


Chop off the sides (The Rev - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
  Chop off the sides of the moustach,put him in a SS uniform and what do you have? Jerry The DUCK!!!!!


Wanna coon dog? (Chris from ASL - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)


Thanks for the tip B (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Thanks for the tip Bob, I'll tell the wardens to consider locking the cell doors from now on.


Yesterday, we went t (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Yesterday, we went through the entire day without an escape. But today... well... uhhh... not so great.


Hey baby ever done i (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Hey baby ever done it in a jail cell? Follow me, one just opened up.


Yes kids, nose hair (Tom Joad (Kevin) - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Yes kids, nose hair can grow that long.


If I stare at you ha (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
If I stare at you hard enough, I can kill you with the power of my moustache.


Well, Will, you win (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Well, Will, you win the creative imagination prize.


A gay version of "Bo (Joey - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
A gay version of "Boogie Nights," starring Jerry Kilgore as Dirk Diggler.


I.Publius: You're ge (Lowell - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
I.Publius: You're getting very close to being banned for "trolling."  Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem attacks?


CR- Tim has been ver (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
CR- Tim has been very clear on this. He has explained his personal belief and he has explained that he'll uphold the laws of Virginia. When the two conflict, he'll uphold the laws of Virginia first. http://www.kaine2005.org/media/law.php

Why is that so hard to understand?

He has chosen his battles and the death penalty is not his top priority. His top priorities are schools, roads and jobs. These are critically important things to Virginia.

Kilgore on the other hand doesn't seem to stand for anything except smearing Kaine. How noble of him!



Oh, Joey. Don't wal (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Oh, Joey.  Don't walk away now, when I need you most.  You're still my happy fun boy.


Wow. I'm sure Tim w (I.Publius - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Wow.  I'm sure Tim would be proud to have supporters like you, Josh.

Please don't stop posting stuff like this.

And you're the "strategist" for RK?  Actually, that explains quite a lot.



Article IV Clause 3 (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Article IV Clause 3
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.



Do you hold Tim Kain (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Do you hold Tim Kaine's christianity against him too, IP?  nice.


Holding Kaine's reli (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Holding Kaine's religious beliefs against him is exactly what what Jerry  Kilgore and the Virginia Republican Party is doing.  And it's really disgusting how Kilgore is using emotion-clad ads to insinuate that Tim Kaine is responsible for these family member's grief.  I'll have a lot more to say about those ads.  But for now, I am just amazed at the hypocrisy, and outright hate being promoted by Jerry Kilgore about Tim Kaine.  Since when is providing defense for clients a disqualifer for governing?  I think it is Kilgore who disqualifies himsself.  He's shown he doesn't believe either in "innocent until proven guilty"  or in the right to a defense.  The wonder is that anyone saw him fit to be AG.  It's truly frightening that one who doesn't believe in the Constitution or rule of law could ever be elected to anything. 



Lowell: How bout a c (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Lowell: How bout a caption contest for the above picture?

I can think of a few.



Has anyone else noti (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Has anyone else noticed the replacement word in spell check (at least mine) for Kilgore is Killer?

I thought that was quite profound.



Kathy, your wish is (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
Kathy, your wish is my command.  *bows deep*


If Tim Kaine really (CR UVa - 4/4/2006 11:28:39 PM)
If Tim Kaine really believes so strongly that the death penalty is wrong, why would he not make the attempt, should he make it to the Governor's mansion, to make it illegal?  As a Christian, my faith dictates my core values, and all other decisions (political, social, etc.) fall in line with those values.  I know this holds for all other Christians as well.  Are Republicans questioning Kaine's faith?  Yes, because his actions do not suggest a Christian viewpoint; I am not talking about whether he views the death penalty as right or wrong, but that he follows through with what he says, that he tells us the truth.  If his faith means that much to him, all other decisions should be made based on those beliefs.  Instead, much like John Kerry, we see him waffling on these issues. 

Jerry Kilgore doesn't hate Christians.  The issue here is that Tim Kaine's "faith" is questionable.  Until we see a more consistent message from Tim Kaine on issues such as abortion and the death penalty, you can expect the Kilgore campaign will hit this issue hard until election day.  Hate abortion?  Look to eliminate it.  Think the death penalty is wrong?  Promise to illegalize it.  By his waffling, Kaine only patronizes us and misleads his constituents.



bing bing bing... we (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
bing bing bing... we may have a winner!

go shawn!



Here's the link: (Greg - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Here's the link:

http://www.uncut.at/data/poster125/pink-panther-5-revenge.jpg



"At that time though (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
"At that time though, the strict budget cuts made to the DOC created the symptoms that led to the escape"

You mean like the kind of strict budget cuts that the Warner Kaine tax reform avoided, and that would have been absolutely necessary if a Jerry Kilgore weak-kneed approach to government had been in place?

Irresponsible Government is not a Virginia Value, but it's a Jerry Kilgore Hallmark.



Kilgore solved the p (Passing Through - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Kilgore solved the problem at the Dept. of Corrections pretty quickly - he brought in Ron Angelone from Nevada to serve as head of the DOC.

Angelone cut escapes to zero with his no-nonsense, tough policies that emphasized security over all other concerns of inmates.  This included allowing use of rubber tipped bullet firing rifles in the more high security prisons, many of which were built during this time (e.g. Sussex I and II, Red Onion, Wallens Ridge, to name a few)

"They try to escape, we shoot them", Angelone was quoted as saying.

Article: http://www.richmond.com/output.aspx?article_id=752494

Now, the biggest escape in Virginia history, the breakout of six men from death row at Mecklenburg in 1984 (which included Lem Tuggle, a client of Tim Kaine), occurred during the Robb administration. 

At that time though, the strict budget cuts made to the DOC created the symptoms that led to the escape (poorly staffed facility, low morale among workers, too much administration at the top to see what was happening in the institutions)....



Greg, we can definat (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Greg, we can definately work with that one...

Does 'a yeur dauga' baaet?

or how about

We need a rruum. 
A ruuum?
yeas, a rrruum.. a rruuum. you seeelee man.

funnier people here than me can do better.



Actually, again the (Passing Through - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Actually, again the budget cuts came during the Robb administration in 1982 or thereabouts.  It was also due largely to economic slowdown in the state economy (this was pre-Northern Virginia tech boom).

The DOC had very low morale at that point not only due to the poor training and low pay, but the ACLU had a number of lawsuits filed on behalf on inmates.  The warden of Mecklenburg and administrators at HQ in Richmond felt that the "lawyers were running the prison".

Also, the concept of Mecklenburg failed because it put all the most dangerous inmates together at that one facility.  Originally thought to be a good idea for securing the troublemakers - it made the institution exponentially more difficult to operate.  There weren't any programs to divert the inmates away from idle time and deviant behavior.  The facility was built with far too many interior doors - intended to secure the "pods" of the prison and isolate trouble.  However, these doors - all 30 of them, required individual around the clock staffing, greatly sapping/diverting the guard numbers available to walk the floor of the institution.

A lot changed after the breakout of May 30, 1984, masterminded by the vicious duo of James and Linwood Briley.  A new warden from Utah was brought in, who turned the approach towards the inmates from being purely punitive towards some element of rehabilitation, new prisons were built to take the pressure of Mecklenburg and training of guards significantly improved.

All this, again, occurred before Jerry Kilgore's time as Director of Public Safety.  The problems he dealt with came as a result of a lack of higher end security facilities and some inmates were very brazen in their protest of new DOC director Ron Angelone's stiff policies.  Eddie Pearson, warden of Brunswick Correctional Center, got slashed severely face with a shiv by an inmate without provocation on Thanksgiving day.  However, these problems and the few escapes that were occurring (all inmates were recaptured quickly) died off completely once Angelone's full security plan - e.g. rubber bullet shotguns in the cellhouse and new high security institutions constructed off in the hinterlands of SW and SE Virginia came into effect).

Virginia prisons today are tough, but securely and humanely managed institutions.  The public can go to sleep every night confident that there will not be any breakouts to wake up to learn about the following day.



"I like the beat of (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
"I like the beat of the disco." - Jerry Kilgore (actual quote)

I wish we had video on that one.



Caption: Jerry ga (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Caption:

Jerry gaffed and and admitted he'd just had a lunch of ribs and "dic-tater salad"



Caption: SCOTTY HOW (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Caption:
SCOTTY HOWELL (memo to self): Launch swift boats!  Voters are about to figure out which candidate really looks like the dictator.


Caption: "Have I got (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Caption: "Have I got a Coalfield Expressway to Sell You."


Jerry Kilgore looked (Brian - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Jerry Kilgore looked great moments after signing an agreement to become spokesperson for Garnier Fructis hair products.


Yesterday, we went t (Steve Nelson - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Yesterday, we went through the entire day without an escape. It was a positive day for the department of corrections.

oh wait... that IS what he said. sorry.



Jerry Kilgore: "Yest (Justin - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Jerry Kilgore: "Yesterday was a positive day for the Department of Corrections. Instead of spending an hour putting on hair gel, I actually caught a prisoner trying to escape. Plus, the fog wasn't as bad."



"Inspector Clouseau" (Greg - 4/4/2006 11:28:40 PM)
"Inspector Clouseau"



Alex posted this in (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:42 PM)
Alex posted this in another diary.  ANOTHER BIG FAT LIE FOR JERRY DUBYA:

...

Kilgore can’t even get his golden masterpiece ad right without lying.

Take the whole illegal immigrant thing in the ad with the widow of the slain police officer:

Jon Sheldon, Bell’s former attorney, said in an interview Thursday that his client, who was convicted and is on death row, had been on bond pending deportation proceedings at the time of the slaying and was not an illegal immigrant.

“You are an illegal immigrant when you don’t hold a valid visa or passport for citizenship,” Sheldon said. “He was legally in the country with a permanent visa.”

So why did Jerry make the widow lie and say he was an illegal immigrant when he wasn’t? Is he just tossing in lies just for the sake of lying?? Trying to knock out two wedge issues with one stone? Sorry, doesn’t hold water here.

The situation was horribly tragic, and even I think that people who gun down police officers in cold blood deserve the death penalty, but why would Jerry taint what should have been his most effective ad with a bold-faced lie?



Nice. Kilgore can (Alex - 4/4/2006 11:28:43 PM)
Nice.

Kilgore can't even get his golden masterpiece ad right without lying.

Take the whole illegal immigrant thing in the ad with the widow of the slain police officer:

Jon Sheldon, Bell's former attorney, said in an interview Thursday that his client, who was convicted and is on death row, had been on bond pending deportation proceedings at the time of the slaying and was not an illegal immigrant.

"You are an illegal immigrant when you don't hold a valid visa or passport for citizenship," Sheldon said. "He was legally in the country with a permanent visa."

So why did Jerry make the widow lie and say he was an illegal immigrant when he wasn't?  Is he just tossing in lies just for the sake of lying??  Trying to knock out two wedge issues with one stone?  Sorry, doesn't hold water here.

The situation was horribly tragic, and even I think that people who gun down police officers in cold blood deserve the death penalty, but why would Jerry taint what should have been his most effective ad with a bold-faced lie?



do yall really think (alva - 4/4/2006 11:28:43 PM)
do yall really think that is a good response.  just sounds like sour grapes to me.  I don't think vast majority of people in Virginia who support the death penalty are going to be swayed by the fact that Brownback, Easley and Jeb Bush oppose it.  But thats just me


So just when does th (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:43 PM)
So just when does the media start calling Jerry W. Kilgore a liar?  When he gets indicted for it?

How about George W. Bush, when does the media start referring to him as embattled?  When he's convicted?



Keep exposing Kilgor (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:43 PM)
Keep exposing Kilgore and Bolling until the mear mention of their name causes nausea for everyone!


Now that's more like (Conaway - 4/4/2006 11:28:43 PM)
Now that's more like it, folks. That's a great response piece b/c conservative wonderboys make the same choice as "liberal" Tim Kaine!

-- Conaway



This may be the numb (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
This may be the number one reason to vote for Tim Kaine.

I remember 2001!

After 9/11, my husband lost his job, and there was not a job to be found! After 6 months of trying & searching (while Warner & Kaine were cleaning up Gilmore's mess), it was decided it was best for him to go back to school.  Making us a single income family, and me the sole bread winner.

That was a bad, bad time.  Thanks for the trip down memory lane!  I am so not going back there! I am going to work even harder to get Tim Kaine to the governor's mansion!



Well the fact that A (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
Well the fact that ALL of the despicable "Hitler" ads include baldfaced lies doesn't seem like that big a deal, so maybe the fact that according to Jerry Kilgore, SCOTUS Chief Justice John Roberts is unfit for a role in government might just wake a couple of people up.


Y'all can intellectu (Arbie - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
Y'all can intellectualize this issue all you want, but this is an emotional issues with voters. Voters aren't going to parse every little thing everyone here cites on the death penalty

Until TK somehow finds a way to change the subject, he's gonna lose votes on this issue. And, I hope he does this soon since I think he would make a great governor.



The sad fact I have (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
The sad fact I have found is no one in my small relam of contacts has any interest in the election what so ever. They find both candidates lacking.

The effect is going to be a continuous subtle message.

So when and if they get ready to cast that vote the replay of info will paint the picture of the person who measures up to the voters values and needs.

I've heard a number of Republicans say they were not voting because of disgust with (spell check killer)Kilgore.



http://www.leesburg2 (Brave Hart - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
http://www.leesburg2day.com/current.cfm?catid=31&newsid=11202

I think this will be a triple where growth has outpaced infrastructure.



On NBC4's 4:00 news (Annie - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
On NBC4's 4:00 news this afernoon:

Taylor Behl's mother made a statement to reporters after her daughter's funeral today.  The funeral was held at the Church of the Holy Comforter in Vienna, VA.  Through her tears she said she hoped they would catch the guy who did it and she hoped he would be put to death.

Was she trying to send a message to fellow Catholic Tim Kaine? Is the family Republican?  Traditionally the Bishop in Arlington has been quite on the death penalty issue while obssessed over abortion.



Check out what the M (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
Check out what the Media had to say today about Kilgore's attacks today on Tim Kaine:
DEATH PENALTY ATTACK IS A VILE POLITICAL TACTIC (Bristol Herald Courier Editorial 10/14/05)

Jerry Kilgore should apologize for a vicious new attack ad that suggests his political opponent would not support the death penalty for the world’s most notorious genocidal villain Adolf Hitler... 
More Here: http://www.kaine2005.org/news/articles/20051014h.php

THE HITLER CARD (Daily Press Editorial 10/14/05)
In the search for votes, Kilgore goes looking in the gutter
Kaine has a moral objection to state-sanctioned executions, but he will fulfill the will of the people and enforce the law as written. Other Virginia governors have held the same position; they just didn't say so....
...That's where Kaine stands, and he has been utterly consistent. Kilgore wants to make something of it. Virginia will have to decide who's the honorable player in this game.
More here: http://www.kaine2005.org/news/articles/20051014g.php

These are only a couple, my friends.  The Kilmore attempts are transparent.

It is so amazing these people are SO PRO-death penalty, yet so Anti-Choice.  All from a party that attempts to say God is on their side! 

I have said it once, and must say it again – This S*#% is Bananas!

One more thing…  Exactly where does the “Culture of Life” play into Kilgore’s recent fry-em all strategy???? 

Tim Kaine is the Honorable Player in this game!



I'm Catholic, a demo (Chris from ASL - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
I'm Catholic, a democrat, who agrees with Tim Kaine on this issue and abortion.

My soon to be fiance is a Catholic too, but a really fierce republican.

So, Jerry, would that mean that we are both not competent to hold the governor's office?  That statement is as ridiculous as "leadership does not include tax increases."



Arbie: More voters (Jen Little - 4/4/2006 11:28:44 PM)
Arbie:  More voters are listening, and they know Kilgore's a lyin'.  But think what you must. 

ziik:  I disagree it is not "sour grapes"
Although Kilgore will not answer hypothetical questions - he is HYPOCRITICAL.  The Kaine campaign sending a press release pointing out factual information is not "sour grapes". It merely conveys republicans can't have it both ways.

Jerry Kilgore: Can’t be Trusted on the Death Penalty.
Jerry Kilgore: Can’t be Trusted as Governor.