We all posted about this at the same time!  I just blogged, it's up on Kos, you got it up, and added a great pic-Wow.  Crazy news.  I would have loved to have been a fly on that wall.

Hope's you'll cross post the Mike Stark story.

Jim Webb continues to FIGHT!

...we know that he would never resort to such a response to George "War" Bush since Webb's intelligence, intellect and composure under fire are astronomically superior to that of our current Commander in Chief.

Is it 2007 yet?  Is it 2008 yet?  Is it January 20, 2009 yet?

I can hardly wait for the new year, and all the ones that will follow it...

Steve 

on YOUR blog, Jaime.  Check it out.  And by the way, I don't think there's any way Webb was not in control of himself, but after seeing the news out of Ramadi the last couple of weeks his anger would be totally understandable.

Jim Webb told everyone he wasn't going to back down!!!!

Not even to the President!

THIS HAS TO GET POSTED ON DAILY KOS!!

JAIME!

gracias!

to wish Jim had actually given him a thumpin'?  I bet he really had to hold himself back.

It's okay to joke about it! =)

I was joking of course.

Lord knows i don't need the secret service banging on my door!

 

The story and the blog links!

Georgie Bush needs to understand that those who were "Born Fighting" do not flinch because they are in the presence of someone who somehow fell into an office he is not capable of filling properly.

Jim Webb will not kowtow to anyone. Do you hear that, Joe Lieberman???

Born Fighting indeed. I will take that bumper sticker off my car when they pry it from my cold dead hands... er, ok that line doesn't work.

Isn't Jimmy in Anbar Province? Oy.

Where's the staircase comment contest for this one? "I'm sure he's having a harder time than being AWOL from the Alabama Air National Guard, Mr. President."

or - Hey, shit for brains - same team.  (for any UR players out there)

Support the troops my ass.

Go, Jim! 

BEST_SENATOR_EVER

... yes, but it's fun to say.

But, After reading this today. Jim Webb is officially my hero in life. And yes I said I, damn proud of it too.

BEST_SENATOR_EVER?

... yes, but it's fun to say.

why don't you say it again?

grow your hair out like that Dave. 

after you get out of the Navy of course!

It's about time we had a leader with the courage to do so.

He said he'd be our voice in the corridors of power.

God, he was not lying.

That's what Senators and Congressman are supposed to do, challenge the President.

They are separate and co-equal branches of government.

Right?

Wait, I forgot.  They didn't go to Iraq.  Nor did most children of the elite in Washington.

Jim Webb is going to be among a handful of Senators who have kids in the military and who has also served.

"I didn’t ask you that"

Unfortunately, there are many questions that George Bush didn't ask before going into Iraq.  He is truly a mental midget.

already know everything.  Must come from having been appointed by God to become President, right? 

Causing so much commotion the embassy allegedly asked them to leave (which the embassy now denies).

Who wants to be that within the next year we'll see one of the twins with Lohan, Hilton or Spears?

I was JUST thinking about that last night-I would love it if they bumped into each other and partied, then the apocolypse would defnitely be near...

Jenna was (is) in Paraguay.  Did you know bush I bought 100,000 acres in Paraguay and will be next door neighbor to Rev. Moon who bought 1,000,000 acres.  Their land is over top the largest fresh water reserve on the planet.  Paraguay does not have extradition. There are a lot of marines down there.  What do you think they are planning.  An escape to paradise in 2008?  This family has cost the Secret Service more money than any family in history.  They have WH West in Crawford and now building a compound in Paraguay.  It is a large unruly family which is very expensive for all of us.

Bush should realize that respect is earned and he has earned NONE.

I edited with the WaPo update.

I am so glad Webb didn't capitulate to such bullying (as if), and I am equally thankful that we elected someone who has enough self-discipline to behave with dignity.

I updated on Kos to try to get the attention of those that can update the front page.

Come rec if you can, I think this is a much more powerful statement.

Kos

It has been updated.

Thanks: I'm going to add the link to the front page . . .

I just can't believe that our president has no capacity to have empathy or understanding towards any other human being and can come out with a heartless unfeeling statement like, "I didn't ask you that." 

What father who loves his son wouldn't comment exactly the way that Webb did.  Of course he wants his son home.  Bush wouldn't know about what it's like to be in a war or have a loved one in a war.  His remark to Webb is uncaring just like his not showing up after Katrina for five long days and making the comment when he hit Mississippi that "that's where he used to party."  There's no capacity for compassion
just pure heartless tactless remarks. 

I'm proud that we have Webb as our Senator and I'm grateful that he can stand up for what he believes in.  We need a voice in Congress and that's what the people of Virginia voted for.  As far as I'm concerned both Jim and Jimmy are heroes and are fighting for the USA tooth and nail.

I was going to write such a response when I finished reading all the quotes.
But here is an answer to another quote.
GOD does not appoint Bastards to the Presidentcy. They are elected by idiots and Supreme Courts.

I recommend the excellent book "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President" by Justin A. Frank. The paperbak edition has additional material from the hard cover release.

From Amazon.com's Book Description:

A renowned Washington, D.C.-based psychoanalyst examines George W. Bush's public persona-and asks serious questions about whether he is fit for the office he holds.

In Bush on the Couch Frank offers a comprehensive psychological profile of President George W. Bush using the principles of Applied Psychoanalysis, the discipline of psychoanalyzing public and historical figure pioneered by Freud. With an eye for the subtleties of human behaviour sharpened through thirty years of clinical practice, Frank traces the development of Bush's character from childhood to present day, identifying and analyzing Bush's patterns of thought, behaviour and communication. A thorough and authoritative examination of Bush's public appearances and speeches, along with historical, biographical, and journalistic records, Bush on the Couch is a compelling portrait of George W. Bush, filled with controversial and disturbing revelations about our nation's leader.
Insightful and accessible, courageous and controversial, Bush on the Couch sheds startling new light on the Bush psyche and its impact on the way he governs, tackling head-on the question no one seems willing to ask: Is our president psychologically fit to run the country?

I just can't believe that our president has no capacity to have empathy or understanding towards any other human being and can come out with a heartless unfeeling statement like, "I didn't ask you that." 

What father who loves his son wouldn't comment exactly the way that Webb did.  Of course he wants his son home.  Bush wouldn't know about what it's like to be in a war or have a loved one in a war.  His remark to Webb is uncaring just like his not showing up after Katrina for five long days and making the comment when he hit Mississippi that "that's where he used to party."  There's no capacity for compassion
just pure heartless tactless remarks. 

I'm proud that we have Webb as our Senator and I'm grateful that he can stand up for what he believes in.  We need a voice in Congress and that's what the people of Virginia voted for.  As far as I'm concerned both Jim and Jimmy are heroes and are fighting for the USA tooth and nail.

the story tonight.

And tell me, Mr. President, how are the skanky twins doing in Argentina? Been kicked out yet?

BTW, Jim Webb came to our FCDC meeting tonight. Was gracious and charming and funny and mostly very, very appreciative. A true class act. I'm so dammed proud and happy to have supported him.

on Webb's encounter with Bush and other things.

http://www.washingto...

He's going to shake that place up.  I was impressed that he's trying to get senior Senators to sponsor a new GI bill because he believes it would have a better chance of passing.  He's making it clear this really is about the troops.  A new GI bill beats hell out of a yellow car magnet any day of the week.

I thought he struck a nice balance--yes, he's going to be his own man, but he's also understands the need to be part of the team. He may well be a "total pain" but he obviously wants to get things done more than he wants to cover himself with glory.

If I may be permitted to say--this in direct contrast to his former opponent and soon-to-be-former Senator Allen.

To adhere to journalistic fairness standards, I'm adding these two Bush pictures since we have that nice picture of the Webbs up.

If the exchange was reported accurately, I think Senator-elect Webb was less than gracious--some would say downright rude.  I understand how he feels about Bush/Iraq war but I think this wasn't Jim at his best.  It's OK to come out fighting but he will have to work with these guys and a little diplomacy could go a long way.  Is Jim going to be the "loner" as some have characterized him? 

If one is asked a "how's x" question about someone near and dear who is in a tough situation -- it's very natural to respond the way Jim did.

Example: you have a very sick child -- you might respond -- "It's in God's and the doctors' hands."

And second, someone needs to stand up to Bush, who is a very arrogant person.

While I seriously doubt that Jim Webb was either rude or ungracious during his recent Whitehouse visit, I was not the least bit surprised to read about his brief conversation with President Bush.

It sounded exactly like the Jim Webb whom I have gotten to know and respect as a leader, not a follower.

During his two campaigns, Webb often strayed from the normal political routes in order to handle certain items that were important to him as an individual. 

The most well-publicized example of Webb's independence and unorthodox campaign style was his decision not to participate in the Labor Day political activities in order to spend time with his son in Camp Lejeune during the week prior to Marine lance corporal Jimmy Webb's deployment to Iraq. 

With a son the same age serving in the Navy, I applauded Jim Webb for that decision and admire him greatly for it. 
There were other, more subtle examples of Webb's independence that I observed over the ten months that I was in frequent contact with him. 

I won't attempt to catalog them here, but I must mention that Jim Webb is a deep thinker who has a very good understanding of political and social symbolism and that he will not participate in any public displays that might be interpreted as less than accurate or true.

Keep standing up for the truth, Jim, and we'll all get to know you better, and be better for it.

Thanks!

Steve 

that it's really Bush trying to control the situation.  Bush knew Webb didn't want to talk to him but deliberately sought him out to ask him a personal question, to which Webb gave a response which both made his position clear and offered the opportunity for Bush to respond with some platitude like "that's what we all want".  But Bush didn't want a substantive answer.  He was trying to make him answer this particular personal question as a way of asserting his authority.  Webb both managed to assert his right not to answer the question and acknowledged Bush's office at the same time:  "That's between me and my boy, Mr. President".  It was a power struggle and he came out on top. 

January 22 (?) All eyes and ears need to be on Jim Webb as he presents the MAJORITY democratic response to the Presidents State of the Union Address.

The Union is in pretty bad straights - and Jim Webb (or Tester) need to be the strong voice of the new Democratic party.

Par for the course. He didn't want a substantive answer in Iraq or anything else

It was a "pleasantry" for Bush, nothing more.  Having thought a lot about Bush these past few years, I don't see much empathy within him.

And he was also trying to corner Webb. If Webb answered "fine" Bush could use it to say Webb has no problem with the war. If Webb said "not so good" then he would be a whiny librul. So Webb refused to play that game and maintained his civility and integrity.  Good for him.

From Nevsky42 comes one suggestion for a simple and appropriate response on the part of Bush.

Jim Webb has more important things than augment the group that provides cover for GW's lack of elementary manners. It's not Webb's job to enable the failings of the executive branch.  Quite the opposite.

"How's your boy?" Bush asked, referring to Webb's son, a Marine serving in Iraq.

"I'd like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President," Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

"That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

"That's between me and my boy, Mr. President," Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.

"I answered your question, George. It may not be the answer you were looking for but I answered the question. If you are too stupid to figure that out, don't try to say I did not answer your question."

Our country is in the toilet because no one has the balls to stand up to that twit of a president!  Our "gracious" and diplomatic congress has allowed itself to be steam rollered by this adminstration.  I've never be so proud of anyone....or as satisfied for having worked on a campaign then when I read this yesterday.  I hope Jim continues being honest and challenging.  And I hope that others in congress get some courage to do the same and realize that ass-kissing is not part of their job description.

Ok so I am going to try and post these - I am not sure how to get images up - might need a couple of tries.

[IMG]http://i113.photobuc...[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i113.photobuc...[/IMG]

I needed a good laugh.

Did he ever realize he could not see anything? Or did his dog remove the covers for him?

...Tax cuts for the top 1% - $5 Trillion plus...

..."Commander in Chief" who doesn't know to take off the lens caps from his binoculars...PRICELESS!!!

Thanks!

Steve

If you're going to have those made up for real, bring them to the Al Weed speech on biorenewable energy sources on Dec 9th in Falls Church and I'll buy one...and put one on my Prius there and then next to my Born Fighting one.

Jim treated Bush like a man. Perhaps the first time anyone did in Bush's 60 years. Face to face, in effect, telling him what he is worth and what he and the rest of us think of him. In my opinion, a weakling and a coward. It was an exhilarating moment but it gave my wife the willies.

over at NLS.

Some bush defender "called me out" regarding the service on my Marine in Iraq. I kinda went nuts in my reply. He really pi--ed me off....

Don't let those turkeys get you down.

I just went and read it, NND. They are not worth your time and energy. I don't know if something is wrong with some of those posters or if this is backlash. Maybe a little of both.

So please try to focus on the fact that we elected a new Senator who is thinking about all of our troops.

Hang in there.

NND, I read both your comments on NLS and thought they absolutely rocked.  My Marine niece went to Iraq the first time gung ho for crushing the terrorist hordes.  By the second tour she was totally over it.  She ended up being medevacked out for seizures brought on by the heat, stress, and sheer physical exhaustion created by rumbling in convoys all over Anbar province.  She'd tell you Bush is an ass.  As a reservist she still faces the prospect of having to go back again in another year or two.  Meanwhile, she's having trouble paying for her schooling.  Last tour she had to interrupt her schooling to go on her tour.

The phonies running this war are all for waving flags and slapping yellow magnets on cars, but they're failing our troops and neglecting their needs.  The whole burden of this war is being borne by a few families such as yours and mine, and then dumbasses like the twit you were responding to at NLS have the nerve to question your patriotism or commitment.  Well we're free-thinking American citizens, not automatons or mindless drones of our pathetic and inadequate leadership, and as American citizens we have the right and obligation to stand up and question stupid decisions.

I'm totally impressed with your pissed off Irish self (being Irish/Italian myself) and can relate to your response to that clod.  Kick his ass.

Good God help us all. The President of the United States is SUCH and A**Hole!

http://notlarrysabat...

that the Wash Post ran this story on page one, above the fold.  How do you figure that?

Bush is, like it or not, the Commander in Chief. So when he asked how a Marine Lance Corporal is doing in Iraq, I think he deserved a direct answer.  Leaders should try to learn things by asking questions that short circuit the usual chain of command.

Bush gets criticized for being in "the bubble" all the time.  Not fair to jump on him for asking a question.

And I'm no troll -- I never voted for GW, or for his father, or for Reagan, and will never vote for Jeb. 

Bush isn't being criticized for asking a question.  He's being criticized for his second statement which was tactless and inappropriate.

Certainly Jim Webb is particularly well-informed on the chain of command and is conscientious regarding his own responsibilities and relationship to it. What sort of direct answer can you imagine would have assisted GWB in carrying out his duties as CiC that he doesn't - or shouldn't - know already?

But anyway, the thought occurs to me that maybe Webb literally meant that what he had been told by his son was told to him in confidence.  That's very likely, I think.  He's got to navigate the line between his being a public figure and his family having some privacy.  So I think the whole flap is overblown, and is just poor communication, and a lack of grace on both sides.

Now, to pick up your point, if for example, Webb's son didn't have appropriate body armor, wouldn't that be something that Webb could have usefully brought up?  That was the kind of feedback parents were getting and passing on earlier in the war. Are we supposed to assume now that Bush is all-knowing, despite all the evidence to the contrary?  If he wants to escape the bubble, that's good.

 

weighs in on the episode.

"... Webb certainly has conveyed what he is: a boor. Never mind the patent disrespect for the presidency. Webb's more gross offense was calculated rudeness toward another human being -- one who, disregarding many hard things Webb had said about him during the campaign, asked a civil and caring question, as one parent to another. When -- if ever -- Webb grows weary of admiring his new grandeur as a "leader" who carefully calibrates the "symbolic things" he does to convey messages, he might consider this: In a republic, people decline to be led by leaders who are insufferably full of themselves. ..."

http://www.washingto...

George Will's over-the-top criticisms of U. S. Senator-elect Jim Webb should come as no surprise to those who are familiar with his articles and opinions.

Beginning in January, the breath of fresh air that Jim Webb will bring to Washington, D.C. should help rid it of many recent bad odors.

Perhaps by springtime, such new attitudes and ideas will have replaced old hot air in the nation's capital city.

Let's just take another collective deep breath and ask those all-important questions once again:

Is it 2007, 2008, or January 20, 2009 yet?  No, but soon it will be...

I'm breathing easier already, and it's not even December, 2006 yet.

Thanks!

Steve

that a man who so admires Thomas Jefferson would appreciate someone not participating in the monarchical ceremony of presidential pomp and pageantry.

from Wikipedia:

Will was born in Champaign, Illinois, the son of Fred and Louise Will. Fred was a respected professor of philosophy, specializing in epistemology, at the University of Illinois.

George graduated from University Laboratory High School of Urbana, Illinois, and attended Trinity College, in Hartford, Connecticut (B.A.). He received his M.A. from the University of Oxford and his Ph.D. in political science from Princeton University.

It sounds like Will, while perhaps not born into a wealthy family, certainly lived in an elite, protected society.  He's afraid of people like Webb, who combine blazing intelligence with a "commoner" background. Webb understands the working class and the pressures lower income Americans face.  Will has lived in a white tower bubble.  [excuse the mixed metaphor but I kind of like the image.]

He picked on Jim's use of the word "literally" when Jim said the rich "literally" lived in a different country.  I think Jim chose "literally" very carefully, in order to be provocative.  When one is rich or well connected enough, e.g., to escape our judicial system (a tiny example: Allen's friends who did not get charged with assault in the Stark incident) aren't they literally in a different givernmental system?  If you are a CEO making 400 times the salary of one of your workers, aren't you "literally" in another economic system?  The rich set up family trusts to preserve wealth -- the rest of us hope to have enough to send our kids to college.  The rich are not critically affected by economic downturns; the average worker may well be.

But I'd rather not debate Will's semantic arguments, which are typical of the ivory tower elite.

I'd snub Bush too.  In my mind, and I know many respectable, even-tempered, well educated people who think this -- George Bush is a war criminal.  The only thing saving Bush from impeachment is 1)Cheney becoming President, and 2) Pelosi's knowledge that she'd be perceived badly if she justifiably went after both Bush and Cheney.

I look forward to the next 6 years.. This is what Virginia has needed.. Someone to stand up for us and not be a YES man... I applaud Webb for standing up for his son.. I too, want the troops home.. I don't see why we are over there in the 1st place..