George Allen at 1% in New Hampshire

By: Lowell
Published On: 8/11/2005 1:00:00 AM

Whatever eventually happens to Virginia Senator George Allen's presidential ambitions in 2008, we can all look back to today's American Research Group (ARG) poll as the baseline.  The ARG survey puts Allen at just 1% of "Likely Republican Primary Voters" in New Hampshire, which traditionally holds the first Presidential primary in the nation.  ARG also finds that Allen is polling ZERO among "undeclared" voters.  Not very impressive, especially since Allen visited the state in June.

So, who's leading in New Hampshire among Republicans who have visited the state as possible Presidential candidates?  Not surprisingly, it's John McCain in a landslide, with 39% of "Likely Republican Primary Voters," followed by "Undecided" at 32%, Newt Gingrich at 14%, Mitt Romney at 8%, and Bill Frist at 5%.  Of course, there's no Jeb Bush in the poll...it would be interesting if ARG had added him, even though he's said he isn't running in 2008.  Also, there's no Rudolph Giuilani, no George Pataki, and no John Sununu, all of whom are potentially strong candidates in New Hampshire. 

The bottom line is that 2008 is likely to be a wild Republican nomination contest.  As far as George Allen is concerned, however, right now he's nothing more than a blip.


Comments



My first time here, (Nicole Sikora Heschong - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
My first time here, but I had to comment on Chris's "inanimate object" note...

I was working in Southwestern Virginia when Warner was running for governor, and got to watch him speak and work a crowd several times. I strongly disagree that he lacks charisma, especially during a campaign.  The guy can light up a room.

And to suggest that his personality is somehow lacking or Kerry-like -- I think that's wrong too.  Kerry couldn't speak plainly. Warner can, and he can do it with a vibrant smile.

I'm in NC now, but would vote for Warner for Democratic nominee and for President in a heartbeat. He's an impressive candidate on many fronts.



Concerning calls for (eddie ratliff - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Concerning calls for Mark Warner to skip a 2008 White House bid to run for the U.S. Senate seat held by Grorge Allen:

1.  Mark Warner has shown little interest in running for the senate

2.  Every president since Lyndon Johnson has been a governor of a southern state. Mark Warner is governor of a southern "red" state known as the "Best managed state in the nation."

3.  George Allen is considering a White House run in 2008

4.  Polls show Mark Warner would beat George Allen in a White House matchup

5.  If Warner has ambitions to be president, the senate would (if history is any indication) likely be the kiss of death for that

6.  In the history of presidential elections, only two senators have ever been elected president

7.  Washington needs a reform-minded president and Mark Warner has the vision & capability to run and win the White House and truly change the tone in Washington

8.  If Mark Warner ran for the senate and and lost for any reason, that would mean two senate
losses and likely be the end of his presidential hopes

9.  He has momentum on his side towards a White House run and is quickly rising as the alternative to Hillary Clinton.  He should go with this momentum if indeed the White House is his ultimate goal.

10.  He could do much more as president than as one senator among 100

11.  Party desperation to come up with a senatorial candidate is not a good enough reason to sit one's presidential ambitions aside.

12.  A moderate will be needed on the ticket in
2008.

13.  Mark Warner is the moderate with the most
impressive record.

14.  The one-term governor, we believe, will work to his advantage, not against him.

Some have noted Mark Warner is a one-term governor and as such, lacks the experience and record needed to run for president. 

I?ll leave you with this quote from another of Virginia?s eight U.S. Presidents, Woodrow Wilson, found in the biography of Dean Acheson which quotes Wilson:

?So, when the presidential candidate came to be chosen, it was recognized as imperatively necessary that he should have as short a political record as possible, and that he should wear a clean and irreproachable insignificance...A decisive career which gives a man a well understood place in public estimation constitutes a positive disability for the presidency ;because CANDIDACY must precede election, and the shoals of candidacy can be passed only by a light boat which carries little freight and can be turned readily about to suit the intricacies of the passage.?

END------------



Dick Cheney '08 We' (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Dick Cheney '08
We've been looting as fast as we can but it's gonna take another 4 years to get the job done.

George Allen '08
Vote for me or the pupppy dies. 



I'm afraid he won't (Neal2028 - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
I'm afraid he won't remain a blip, but wouldn't it be rich if Newt Gingrich ended up winning the nomination and Allen was his VP?  What an awful thought...


I agree with Maura. (KathyinBlacksburg - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
I agree with Maura.  I'd like to see Warner outrun Allen in 06.  Better for Virginia and better for Warner.  And in the long run, better for America to get Allen off the fast track.  Of course, only a personality transplant could help him win a national leadership role.  But Bush didn't even have such a transplant.  He just acted like he did on TV.  And the media let him get away with it.  No questions asked about his past; the phony "Texas Miracle," which was a fraud; insufficient attention to his business dealings; and certainly no informing us of his plans for hegemony.  Besides, a man threatening to shove our teeth down our throats, as Allen has done, for prez?  It's hard to visualize worse than what we have now.  But Allen just might be worse. 


Mark Warner is certa (ROY MITCHELL - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Mark Warner is certainly not "aw-shucks"...but...Mark Warner is VERY engaging when he meets & greets people. He is very "easygoing". Just ask the folks in rural Virginia who met him during the 2001 campaign for governor...they were so impressed that they VOTED FOR HIM...a great many of these folks were and are Republicans.

If he were so "boring" why did he attract so many "good ole boys" to his campaign? He even had a race car during that campaign.

Mark Warner has...and will have ...a clear message. He will stick to it and not be all over the map like Al Gore and John Kerry were. His campaign will not be based on just opposing things...he will actually be FOR something.

John Kerry"s fatal flaw was the lack of a clear message and the fact that John Kerry and his campaign (if that's what you want to call it)"did'nt have enough sense to get out of the rain" (a good ole Southern saying).

...greetings to you all from Southwestern Virginia...



Wasn't it the 1988 D (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Wasn't it the 1988 Democratic National Convention when Bill Clinton actually did put the entire nation to sleep?

While I'd love to get a great Roosevelt-like presence as our candidate, it could be dangerous to underestimate Mark Warner.



I wonder what Bill C (Jim Patterson - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
I wonder what Bill Clinton's polling numbers were in New Hampshire (or anywhere else, for that matter) in 1989.

Or George W. Bush's in 1997.

One thing is certain -- the GOP candidate in '08 will NOT be John McCain.  Democrats love him; Republicans do not.  My money is on either Allen or Huckabee.



Lowell, I think you' (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Lowell, I think you'd have to lower the bar very much indeed for Walter to even be able to see it.

Walter, let's start with the basics. 
FIRE, BAAAAAAAD.

Tomorrow's lesson: playing nice with others.



It's a tough one. (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
It's a tough one.

On the one hand, Virginia needs Mark Warner.  His leadership has done so much for the Commonwealth.  He could really make a difference.  It would be great to see him oust Allen, and what a message that would send in terms of strong Democratic Leadership ousting Republican corruption.  Yes, I absolutely would love to see Mark Warner take Allen in '06.

On the other hand, I think Mark Warner's message is one that America needs; one that could truly transform the Democratic party.  At the beginning of the '04 campaign, John Kerry told an audience, "Everybody always makes the mistake of looking south." 

Let's take a minute and let that sink in.  By my count the South, from Virginia to Texas, accounts for 168 electoral votes.  Democrats just want to write that off?  How stupid can you be?

Mark Warner brings two issues to the national debate which Democrats absolutely must learn to represent: southern culture and fiscal responsibility.

So it's a tossup for me.  It depends on who you think needs Mark Warner's great leadership most.

If you think Virginia and the Senate, well there you have it.  If you think America and the Democratic party, there's your answer. 

Once Kaine, Byrne, and Deeds win in November, I think Warner would do the most good for the nation in a Presidential bid.  Under alternative (Please, God NOOOOO!!!) circumstances, I'd have to reconsider.



Warner has a legitim (blueinthecommonwealth_VA - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Warner has a legitimate chance at the Presidential nomination in '08. Lets not leave him behind THIS soon.

By the way, if Newt Gingrich wins the nomination, I'm throwing a party, and EVERYONE is invited.



Maura, I am hopin (Jeremy - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Maura,

I am hoping Warner runs in '06.  That way we get Allen out of the Senate and assure that he will not run in '08 and he will have wasted all this time stumping instead of being here in Virginia. 



Chris: i've heard co (WarnerBayh 2008? Yes..I like - 4/4/2006 11:27:39 PM)
Chris: i've heard comments like yours before and i would not dismiss you just cos I disagree. I myself have been a little concerned about Warner's speaking style, however, it is WAY TOO EARLY and I think he is a very attractive candidate and CAN project a charismatic persona. It may take some time, but if that were a disadvantage, it would be minuscle compared to the superb pluses he brings to the table.

On Allen, I would not dismiss him because of the ARG poll..like someone said no-one even knew of Bill Clinton the summer of 1991 (even though Bush 41 was trying hard to undermine him politically cos not surprisingly, he was afraid of him). I think if Frist gets in he will be stronger than we think in the GOP primary and I think he has more centrist appeal than Allen, who is nothing more than a lock step republican beholden to the extreme right wing elements of this country. However IMHO, Allen though politically experienced can be beaten by Warner because of his image as a right-winger which will be hard to shake off. I think even if both split VA, Warner will have better cross over appeal in PA, OH, WV and CO...Allen I think is too straight jacketed a Republican, I don't see him digressing from the rigth wing agenda and successfully appealing to the center.

Overall, barring any unfortunate event, Warner will skip '06 and run for President in 2008. He will have a clear shot if Hilary doesn't run, though I would still consider him the probable primary winner even if she does. I would strongly suggest that Warner and Bayh avoid splitting "electability voters" (the final arbiter of a mature Democratic party voters) and avoid confronting each other. Bayh is much smarter and effective a Red State democrat than most people think, but my fear is that his senate record would be an easy target which would hurt us south of the Mason Dixie line (senate records can be twisted anyhow one's opponents want it in this era of partisan polarization).

Finally, the GOP (though I think they are mostly nativists are none the less pretty smart politicians), will do themselves a great disservice nominating a congressional republican in 2008...I doubt if any can win. However, they also have a few governors that won't make it past SC..i.e. Pataki, Romney and Owens). Pawlenty might be strong but I beleive their strongest candidate will be Mark Sanford of SC..who I see holding the south and if properly managed is good looking enough to strongly compete for the center and win..But like I said..It's WAY TOO EARLY!!!



According to his web (Michael Crowe - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
According to his website and his statements, Kaine has officially sided with criminals. You are either for immigration-law enforecement or you are against it. It's that simple. Why would Kaine support lawbreakers? He is naive, deluded and corrupt. Virginia deserves better than the likes of Kaine.


Stop Illegal Immigra (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Stop Illegal Immigration:  I see your points, and appreciate your passion. There are a couple issues I have with your post.

1.  Your opening statistic may be sound, but your use of those statistics is inflammatory and unfactual.  If I owned 1% of Microsoft, just 1% I'd be a gazillionaire.  I've seen business plans based on that kind of stuff and none of those businesses exists today. 

2.  Are you saying the the US population grows by 3.2 M/year - half from illegal immigration, and half from internal population growth? 

3.  I see you casting around for who's to blame for the horrible working conditions in Mexico and Central America.  Everybody gets it from you in there: conservatives, progressives, illegal immigrants themselves, not to mention all strains of "elitists". 

I think that a well reasoned economic evaluation of the situation will yield a clearer picture than your social sketch. 

The economic polices that we call "free" markets really provide massive protections and supports for multinational corporations, while failing on many counts.  "free" markets fail to protect small businesses or family farms, fail to provide for worker's rights, benefits, or to protect wages, consumers or the environment.  I think the issue you're looking to take up is the issue of Fair Markets, at home and abroad. 

If I were actually interested in talking about this issue of immigration, I would have this position:  It's no wonder people want to come to America, our trade policy is bankrupting the workers of the world.  That includes the US, btw, but until recently we had at least some protections left over from the New Deal for workers here.  Now alas nearly all of those are gone, so the American working class is going down too.

I'm not interested in talking about immigration, however.  In no small part because there's not mcuh that State Governments can or should do about it and this is just a big sleezebomb lobbed by Jerry Kilgore into the midst of this campaign.  We have important issues like education, transporation and effective government to talk about.  Jerry Kilgore doesn't want to talk about those because everything he has to say about them make him unelectable.

As I'm sure you know, the term "elite" is a codeword that conservatives use to scapegoat liberals.  I note you use the term in the context of progressives and conservatives. 

I found that quite interesting, and implied to me that you might be open to a frank discussion, rather than a shrill combat of screams and spin.  So let's talk real causes.

The priests of the religion of "free" trade need to scapegoat the "liberal elites" otherwise people would realize that it is precisely those priests who are perpetrating the crimes ascribed to liberals and "elites".  For example, the so called "liberal media" supposedly strives to keep the working classes from being heard, whereas if there actually were a "liberal media", there would be many more voices in the public discourse and much less "traitor" branding.

In the "free" trade debate, conservatives need to blame the plight of the working class, and the death of middle american towns on scapegoats like illegal immigrants, otherwise people might realize that it's precisely the Corporate Socialists who have ravaged America and stolen the future of the middle class in exchange for the right to pay only $5 for T-shirts at WalMart.

So what do we want?  Do we want to flail around looking for blame and attack the ones who have been kicked hardest by the whole sorry mess?  Do we want to be divided and hate one another?  I don't think so.

I think that by reducing our giveaways to large businesses, while protecting family farms and small businesses (as Mark Warner and Tim Kain did in their tax reform), we can begin to mitigate the overwhelming power of Monopolist interests in this nation.

There's a propaganda technique called "projection" it's where you accuse someone of what you yourself are guilty of.  Jerry Kilgore has come out accusing the least among us of causing inestimable harm.  Is this an instance of projection?  Is this the pot calling the kettle black?  You have to decide for yourself.



When it comes to ill (Jonathan Mark - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
When it comes to illegal immigration, the London bombings and 9-11 are on my mind.
I suspect they are on the minds of others as well.

There was a poll which I found frightening. It said that six percent of Britons of Pakistani descent approved of the London bombings. Of course, that means that 94 percent do not approve.

But if you told me that there was a group of people seeking to immigrate to America, and five percent of them approved of terrorist acts against Americans, I would want to keep the entire group out. There would be no way to know which members of the immigrating group were terrorist sympathizers.

There is not currently a problem with Central American immigrants bringing terrorist organizations with them here. But there was a case in Detroit that bothered me. A Lebanese illegal immigrant was working as a carpenter, and he was sponsoring house parties to raise money for Hezbollah. And perhaps this illegal immigrant was using day laborer centers.



I am a mexican who c (Mike Sanchez - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
I am a mexican who crossed the border. Mr.kaine was a good man and let me work in his yard for 3 dollars a day untill I learned enough english to apply for a job at burger king. He is a good man. Vote for him.


The big dream by the (Erni Grace - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
The big dream by the pro-illegal activists is to believe that the illegals can be educated and be able to find better jobs.  The whole idea with the illegals is that (1) they do not come here to be educated.  They have large families in their country of origin and must send their money home to help support them. (2) that they pay taxes like the rest the American taxpayer..they do not if they don't have the proper legal paperwork and because they send part or half of their money home the taxpayer must then subsidize their housing, food and free medical (3)their children may do welll in school but the majority of the illegal children are not expected by their parents to finish high school...they are expected to quit school when they turn 16 (by law) and go work to help support their parents and the large families their parents have had knowing that they were already poor when they had the first one.  They rent rooms or garages from friends or relatives and live sometimes 8 to 25 people in a single-family house.  There have been instances many times where some children and grown ups have died in a fire or by asphyxiation caused by a barbecuer that was used for heating during the winter.  Most don't have the facilities to shower and bathe when living in garages and must depend on buying water from machines in front of supermarkets (you've seen them before) for drinking.


kill the illegals (Pastor John - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)


This post has been r (Kaine Bloggers Suck - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
This post has been removed because it uses profanity, has nothing constructive to say, and is simply trolling.  Be gone!


Everyone should just (someone - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Everyone should just mind there own business. Picture if you was in there shoe and living in there country. think how you would feel?? I think this immigration law is stupit. If people like come to the US cause it is a FREE COUNTRY they so be it.


I am a resident of I (Ariana Agaist Hate - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
I am a resident of Illinois and am shocked and saddened by the recent happening in Virginia- specifically the anti-immigrant ranting in Herndon, VA.

Today I heard the story on National Public Radio about the debate over building the day laborer center in Herndon.

Day-Labor Centers Spark Immigration Debate By Jennifer Luttun
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4806486

I am outraged by the vile comment heard over the airwaves by one of the residents of Herndon regarding the town's latino immigrants and the laborer center. At a town meeting, one resident, whose name I heard as Ms. Berger, said, "...it's time for all nationalities to learn to live like Americans, this means learn how to speak English, learn how to have good hygiene, learn how to use appliances in their homes correctly...". What do hygiene or appliances have to do with the question of building a day laborer center?

I echo the sentiments of another commentator, Ms. Washingtion, heard on the same radio broadcast, "...it sounds like I'm back in time in Virginia, and not too long ago- only the names and the race has changed."

I can only hope that the press given to the anti-immigration rhetoric by Jerry Kilgmore and his followers will bring much needed attention and action to the problem of racism and intolerance in our nation. It certainly got my attention.

Ariana
Chicago, IL
nikolapv@hotmail.com



Myth: Immigrants ta (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Myth:  Immigrants take jobs away from Americans.
Fact:  Studies have shown that the opposite is true.  Many immigrants create jobs.  Many immigrants are self-employed and start their own businesses.
Myth:  America is being overrun by immigrants.
Fact:  The percentage of immigrants in the total population is small.  So far, no single decade has topped 1901-1910 for immigration admissions. 
Myth:  Most immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy.
Fact:  Each year immigrants earn $240 billion, pay $90 billion in taxes, and receive only $5 billion in welfare payments.

Debunk those myths!



Dump Moran Says: A (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Dump Moran Says:
August 12th, 2005 at 7:33 pm

Where's Tim? Says:
August 12th, 2005 at 7:38 pm

Kaine Bloggers Suck Says:
August 12th, 2005 at 7:47 pm

Where's TIM ???? Says:
August 12th, 2005 at 7:55 pm

Seems strange that a bunch of one-time bloggers all of a sudden post here with variations of the same message.  Is maybe one person trying to appear to represnt the voices of many?

As far as CAFTA goes, I'm completely incensed by Jim Moran; and utterly dismayed.

Here's a guy I agree with on so many things, 100% Naral voting record, 100% NEA, etc, and he not only votes for CAFTA but champions it! 

In economic terms CAFTA was pretty minor, but as an opportunity to make a statement that the Democrats actually represent something, it was HUGE!

I was so outraged by Jim Moran pulling such an obviously vichy-dem maneauver that I'm looking for someone to against him the next time we nominate a Congressman up here in the 8th.  If there are any progressive Virginians who, like me adore Jim Moran but find this particular position inexcuseable, I suggest you consider stepping up.

True progressives need to take this party back, but Moran's CAFAT position is national, and we're talking local politics. 

Tim Kaine and Mark Warner have a great track record of supporting small businesses with loans, grants, by helping small businees incubators, and with incredibly successful job retraining programs. 

They've also managed to bring thousands of jobs to the Old Dominion without completely giving away the farm by giving outrageous tax breaks or kickbacks.

While the feds do all they can to gut the lives of the working men and women of Virginia, Mark Warner and Tim Kaine have taken real steps to make their lives better.

Tim Kaine doesn't need to take a position on "Free Trade".  Rather than posturing, he's taken action.  He's created thousands of jobs for and helped re-train those whose lives "Free Trade" policies have ruined.

Party Line Politics:  you seem threatened by my posts.  Until you face it, the truth hurts.  I'll use truth with everything I have to debunk radical lies and face down ignorance.

When you empower the victims, the victimizers hang themselves.



All Arlington Dem an (Party Line Politics - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
All Arlington Dem and fellow trolls are capable of doing is spouting the Party line and troll trashing anyone whe strays off the Party line.


I lived in Richmond (Gentrification - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
I lived in Richmond for 5 years. No doubt about it, Tim Kaine has been a big player for gentrification in Richmond. Tim's own neighborhood used to be a place where middle class families with 3 or more kids could find larger homes. No longer. Where are the homes for poor immigrants with 3 or more kids? It's a 2-bedroom apartment.


Do not expect anythi (All Campaign Rhetoric - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Do not expect anything but Kaine campaign rhetoric on this blog. Kaine is good. Kilgore is evil. The possibility that Kaine is the Democratic Chamber of Commerce candidate and Kilgore is the Republican Chamber of Commerce canddiate will not be discussed. Kaine, Kaine, Kaine.


Illegal immgration (R - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Illegal immgration is an issue on every level where it results in a taxpayer expense. It is federal, state and municipal. Every level of government at which the cost of having illegal immigrants exceeds the revenue has an issue. Illegal immigrants as a group have lower education, lower income and more children. A household with $25,000 in income and three chidren costs the public over $30,000 in benefits and are paying $2500 in taxes if any at all. Legal Hispanics make more than illegals, legals as a group receive more from Social Security than they pay in.

Then you get into what happens to citizens and legal immigrants whose jobs are reduced in compensation or outright replaced by the presence of illegals competing for jobs and those citizens and legals still have need for housing, health and education.



This post has been r (Where's TIM ???? - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
This post has been removed because it has absolutely nothing to say and is simply trolling.


Just putting up shel (Jim Patterson - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Just putting up shelters is heartless.  Those workers deserve three good meals (courtesy of Herndon and Fairfax Co. taxpayers) a day, too.  Oh, and a cold 22 ouncer after their hard day's work. 

Any thing less is mean-spirited.  I mean, they've got to eat & drink, too.  Right, Lowell?



Where's Tim Kaine on (Where's Tim? - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Where's Tim Kaine on illegal immigration, CAFTA, and I-66 widening in Arlington? Probably mumbling at a fundraiser for Tom DeLay's CAFTA Whip -- Jim Moran.


This post has been r (Dump Moran - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
This post has been removed because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the blog entry.  It also resorts to crude ad hominem attacks against Jim Moran.  Go away, troll, you are not welcome here.


You are soooo RIGHT! (Janet - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
You are soooo RIGHT! Tim Kaine has got to know what a rotten, exploitative, and miserable social structure exists in Latin America. Especially Mexico. Why does he go along with the status quo that allows the exploiters to use illegal immigration to the U.S. as a primary means of preventing social reform?


We lost control of o (Stop Illegal Immigration - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
We lost control of our borders a long time ago. There are 10.1 million illegal immigrants in the USA right now. If 1% are criminals that's 100,000 criminals. If 1/100 of 1% are terrorists, that's 1,000 terrorists. Think about it.

Bush was supposed to expand the Border patrol enough to secure our borders. He didn't.

There are as many legal, illegal, refugee, asylum seekers, temporary workers etc., who find their way to the USA every year as there is population growth from births minus deaths in the USA. That's 1.6 million per year.

Illegal immigration only keeps the miserable exploitative and corrupt society in most of Latin America thriving. Illegal immigration allows wealthy U.S. conservatives to profit obscenely from slave wage labor. Why so-called progressives allow conservative exploiters to thrive at the expense of the oppressed is beyond me.

Of course, many of today's so-called progressives are wealthy elitists who outwardly differ little in their lifestyle from Republicans and conservatives. Like the conservatives, these so-called progressives are only looking for a source of cheap labor for child care, house cleaning and lawn mowing.

What is worse, everyone but the U.S. elite pays dearly for illegal immigration. In ways ranging from overcrowded schools to health care costs for the uninsured.

It will be interesting to see what happens during the next serious U.S. economic recession. It's bad enough now when so many skilled jobs are being exported while so many poor unskilled people are allowed to immigrate here.



Bottom line: This (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Bottom line:

This is a childish attempt by Jerry Kilgore to rally support for his impotent candidacy.

When you can't carry the sword of truth, try to rally the forces of darkness. 

Ignorance is not an American Value.  Hate is not an American Value.  Jerry Kilgore is now under Subpoena and his close family is under indictment.  Watch for more desperate attempts to move the electorate in the months ahead.

In a better man, desperate days like these would bring out real metal, real conviction, real character.  Kilgore will go on to prove himself a weak, bizarre divider.

As he sinks, let's all throw him the lead lifepreserver he deserves.

Virginia was founded on greater virtue.



I shouldn't be shock (Mo - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
I shouldn't be shocked by the way people think as I've been fighting with the immigration system for over 3 Years now. But reading some of the words above still makes my blood boil. It is painfully obvious that those who rail against illegal immgiration do not get the whole picture.

The majority of illegal immigrants do pay taxes (most have false SS#s) the money they pay in taxes they do not see back in a tax return and they are not able to collect Social Secturity or Medicare. The most recent PEW report stated that a higher number of illegal men in the US are working compared with legal and citizens. And every one of those workers - even the ones without an SS# are paying sales tax every day as consumers. They are hard-working folks (for the most part) who are working to improve their lives and the lives of their families. You are quick to point out that they live in garages, or 10 to a room etc. but then say the taxpayer is subsidizing their housing...huh?

Illegal immigration is not "right" and the open borders have become an area of great concern in these uncertain times. But you average day laborer (the reason this conversation was started) are not terrorists or criminals, they are workers. The real criminals are the companies that hire illegal immigrants, the consumers who are consistently looking for the lowest priced goods and the federal government who has turned a blind eye to the practice. These should be called criminal long before a hard working man whose putting food on his family's table.

I am married to a man who is now considered illegal. He came to America on a legitimate work visa but while we tried to navigate the impossibly confusing immigration system he fell out of status. He has no SS# and has trouble finding work despite his skills and education and he spends his days looking for work as a carpenter. We never chose for him to be illegal and our life would be a LOT better if he wasn't.

You need to stop judging the workers. If they weren't working then wouldn't they really would be a tax burden on your average citizen? Please make up your minds and decide what you are really fighting against. The only judgement you should be passing is on the Federal Government which has consistently encouraged a broken system that does not help anyone.



What a bunch of bloo (Josh - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
What a bunch of bloodsucking trolls y'all have around here.

As someone who's worked day labor, let me tell you right wing fearmongering leaches a thing or two.

After I filed bankrupcy, thanks to a series of company closures after my tech company died, I had no choice but to work for a construction company as a day laborer.

Every one of the day laborers I worked with were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.  Yes, some even had greencards.  Some, like me were just citizens who were down on their luck.  Every one I talked to was documented.  We did backbreaking work for very little money.

What a sickening troll infestation this is.  Pro-illegal is a nice frame, how about racist idiots.  Nice enough frame for you.

This isn't about being legal or illegal, this is about y'all trying to slander Tim Kaine because Jerry Kilgore isn't half the man Tim Kaine is, or half the candidate.

Those of you who are fully employed by the Scott "Black Hands" Howell sleeze machine need to go and take your sleeze out of the Old Dominion.  Those of you who are actually listening to these childish, fearmongering slanders should really check yourselves.

Do you want Jerry Kilgore to win this election and take the Commonwealth Backwards?

These people aren't here to take your jobs, or steal from you or hurt you, they're here because the backwards religion of so-called "free" markets is driving the middle class in America to extincition and the lower classes in Mexico into wage slavery.

Don't let this backwards anger be misdirected, immigrants are only looking for what America has offered all of mankind:  a better future.  That better future is being robbed from the world by the likes of Jerry Kilgore.

Don't let him make a tool and a fool of you.  You're better than he is.  Don't make Virginia suffer, because he's selling you fear-flavored snake oil.



Mike Sanchez Says: A (AJ Smith - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
Mike Sanchez Says: August 10th, 2005 at 6:06 pm I am a mexican who crossed the border. Mr.kaine was a good man and let me work in his yard for 3 dollars a day untill I learned enough english to apply for a job at burger king. He is a good man. Vote for him.

I presume you crossed the border legally if you applied for work at Burger King.  Your comment really does not apply.  Legal Immigrants are welcome. 



CAFTA absolutely wil (CAFTA Affects Virginia - 4/4/2006 11:27:40 PM)
CAFTA absolutely will affect Virginia. But Tim Kaine doesn't want us to talk about it, so we won't. Your Blogmasters.