Right below is the MSNBC video link of former White House insider David Kuo on Hardball answering tough questions about his new book titled GÇ£Tempting FaithGÇ¥ which "says that the presidentGÇÿs staff used evangelicals just to get their votes, but bad-mouthed them behind their backs."
Below the video link is the MSNBC Hardball transcript of this interview!
I bought GÇ£Tempting FaithGÇ¥ this week and I highly recommend it!
The claim in this book "that the presidentGÇÿs staff used evangelicals just to get their votes" is NOT something new. Back in the 2004 election, I posted a lot of credible documentation to show that Bush and the GOP were doing that on many Clark and Kerry yahoo groups.
I put some of those 2004 yahoo group posts on Gen. Wes Clark's blog for everyone to see:
Please forward this on for ALL people to see. The more disillusioned Republicans and "values voters" who are aware of this, the better the chances are of them staying at home on Election Day if they will not vote for a Democrat!
That will help the Democratic candidates who we are supporting to win at least one branch of Congress which is the ONLY WAY how to restore some real accountability to Bush and the GOP leadership before 2008!
Keeping disillusioned Republicans at home on Election Day if they will not vote for a Democrat along with turning out the Democratic vote is key to winning this election!
This is a very important and credibly documented issue which can help to cost the GOP many votes if we can make the weaker members of their voting base aware of these facts!
Mitch Dworkin
http://securingameri...
ANALYSIS: The 2006 Elections are "An Accountability Moment!
http://www.securinga...
http://www.securinga...
Listen to Gen. Wes Clark fight for Dems on Sean Hannity's radio program: An excellent example for all of us to follow and what we all need to be doing to help fight against extreme right wing Neocon smear propaganda which will help our local candidates to win their races!
http://securingameri...
Gen. Wes Clark's endorsement of Jim Webb against George Allen
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http://video.msn.com...= (08:13)
David Kuo plays Hardball
Oct. 17: David Kuo, author of "Tempting Faith," tells Chris Matthews Jesus has become a political figure.
GÇó WATCH VIDEO
http://video.msn.com...= (08:13)
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'Hardball with Chris Matthews' for Oct. 17
Read the transcript to the Tuesday show
Guests: David Kuo, Jim Towey, Chuck Todd, James Barnes
MATTHEWS: The Bush administration is up in arms over a book called GÇ£Tempting FaithGÇ¥ by former White House insider David Kuo, who says that the presidentGÇÿs staff used evangelicals just to get their votes, but bad-mouthed them behind their backs.
He writes, quote, GÇ£For most of the rest of the Whit House staff, evangelical leaders were people to be tolerated, not people who were truly welcomed. No group was more eye-rolling about Christians than the political affairs shop. They knew GÇ£the nutsGÇ¥ were politically invaluable, but that was the extent of their usefulness. Sadly, the political affairs folks complained most often and most loudly about how boorish many politically involved Christians were.GÇ¥
David Kuo is an evangelical Christian, and he served as deputy director of the White House Office of Faith-Based Initiative.
David, thank you for joining us. This book of yours, are you ready to swear to its truth?
DAVID KUO, AUTHOR, GÇ£TEMPTING FAITHGÇ¥: Absolutely.
Chris, I spent two years after I left the White House, spending a lot of time thinking and praying and consulting with pastors and friends about whether to do this. But this is something that I feel passionately about. And what is it? It is that Jesus has become a political figure. If I say Jesus right now, to so many people out in the audience, what theyGÇÿre going to think is, oh, we know his political agenda. We know what he thinks about abortion. We knowGÇöwe think what he thinks about homosexuality and what I think about the estate tax. Of course thatGÇÿs the problem.
MATTHEWS: You know, you make White House manipulation, that you accuse them of, of Christian conservatives, look like that book GÇ£Bonfire of the VanitiesGÇ¥, the way the New York mayor used African-Americans, giving them, he called them GÇ£Plaques for BlacksGÇ¥, just giving them awards, making them feel good, so he could get their support in elections. Is it that bad?
KUO: Chris, itGÇÿs simply...
MATTHEWS: In other words, using these people just as icons, totems, simply to use to them to gin up votes back home?
KUO: Yes, I mean, thatGÇÿs one of the things that I want to say. It should be obvious to everybody. You know, Republican politicians are starved for Christian conservatives to show up for their votes, but they donGÇÿt care about them for their faith. They donGÇÿt care about them for their issues. They want their votes.
The problem is that Christian conservatives, unfortunately, have bought into this, because ofGÇöwell-meaning Christians have bought into this, thinking that they can make the difference, that, You know, that these are people who truly care about them.
MATTHEWS: Was this an everyday thing, where you would watch peopleGÇÿs eyes roll, when you got a call from Jerry Falwell or Robertson or one of these people, or Tony Perkins?
KUO: You know, it has been such a constant in Republican politics that social conservatives are dismissed, that eyes are rolled at them, that theyGÇÿre called these sorts of things. I mean, this is not shocking. ItGÇÿs not new. ItGÇÿs one of the things that I say in the beginning of the book. I say, this shouldnGÇÿt be shocking to people.
And in a lot of ways, you know, did the White House use people of faith for political reasons, right? This shouldnGÇÿt be all that shocking. ItGÇÿs kind of like...
MATTHEWS: OK, bottom line.
KUO: But itGÇÿs what a White House does. A White House does politics.
MATTHEWS: Then I have to ask you, let me quote you something from your book. GÇ£George W. Bush loves Jesus. He is a good man. But he is a politician; a very smart and shrewd politician. And if the faith-based initiative was teaching me anything, it was about the presidentGÇÿs capacity to care about perception more than reality. He wanted it to look good. He cared less about it being good.GÇ¥
You make him look like the Pharisees in the New Testament, like the bad guy, the fraud sitting in the first pew. ThatGÇÿs what you make him look like.
KUO: George W. Bush is a good man. HeGÇÿs a man of faith. President Bush...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: ... perception, which is the way Jesus treated the Pharisees in the New Testament.
KUO: George W. Bush is a man of faith. President Bush is a politician. HeGÇÿs the head of the GOP. HeGÇÿs the leader of government. What IGÇÿm talking about is the political aspect. And the political aspect is everyone in the White House existed to do one thing, and that is to advance the presidentGÇÿs political power. ThatGÇÿs what White Houses do. ThatGÇÿs how they operate. ThatGÇÿs how they function. ThatGÇÿs why they function. And you know, my message here...
MATTHEWS: You were part of this. You were an enthusiastic part of the team, right?
KUO: Absolutely, I was part of the team. And thatGÇÿs what I explore in the book, is this tension between God and politics.
MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you for a true expose, look, I know, and you know a number of senators who are true, Brownback, Santorum, they are true Christians, right?
KUO: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: TheyGÇÿre as true as anybody in the church, right?
KUO: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Well, theyGÇÿre not part of the game, are they?
KUO: What do you mean?
MATTHEWS: I mean, is Rick SantorumGÇÿs not home-schooling his kids for political votes? Is he out there defending the Schiavo woman because of political votes? Or whatGÇÿs he up to?
KUO: Absolutely not. No. I mean, what you see with Rick Santorum is what you get, whether you like it or not.
MATTHEWS: How about the president?
KUO: The president is a man of great faith, right? Does he believe...
MATTHEWS: But is he a political swindler?
KUO: No.
MATTHEWS: You present him as a guy, as a politician, who uses religion to get votes. Is that a fair statement? He uses religion to get votes. Is that the case?
KUO: The idea of portraying President Bush as sort of the political swindler is wrong. HeGÇÿs not.
MATTHEWS: Does he use faith to get votes?
KUO: If your definition of being a political swindler is using faith to get votes, then I think youGÇÿre probably talking about every person in the United States Senate who has run, and probably every politician. You can look back to President Clinton then, and say heGÇÿs a swindler.
I mean, this is not a questionGÇöa politician, a president in office, what does he want to do? He wants to get votes. How is he going to get votes? HeGÇÿs going to get votes by appealing to all sorts of different people, all sorts of different parties. And thatGÇÿs what the president does. ThatGÇÿs what a politician does.
MATTHEWS: How about issues like stem cell. Do you think heGÇÿs using them politically?
KUO: I mean, this ideaGÇöI think youGÇÿre conflating a couple of different things ere. You know, one isGÇöthereGÇÿs no suggestion that people are pursuing policies that donGÇÿt exist, you know, that they are doing these things for purely political reasons in and of themselves on every single issue. I mean, thatGÇÿs to create something thatGÇÿs cut and dry. ThatGÇÿs just not true.
MATTHEWS: Right. So what is the difference? You do this by saying that the president, as a person, is a good man. As a politician, heGÇÿs a politician. If thatGÇÿs the case, whatGÇÿs the news in your book?
KUO: Well, in some ways thatGÇÿs the question. My book is this question about the struggle between faith and politics, right. ItGÇÿs a personal struggle. ItGÇÿs a struggle that played out in the White House. George W. Bush has been portrayed to Christians as a pastor-in-chief. ThatGÇÿs been the idea. ItGÇÿs been the most carefully managed thing there has been about his public image, his public perception as this pastor-in-chief. And itGÇÿs been done politically, so the Christians, frankly, would give him pass on most things.
MATTHEWS: I think I get your point. Now look, letGÇÿs try toGÇödonGÇÿt accuse me of conflation, because no White House, nobodyGÇÿs ever been better at conflation than this White House. They put 9/11 together with Saddam and biological weapons together with nuclear bombs heading our way. ThereGÇÿs a lot of conflation going on.
But I noticed in your book, you talk about the fact that when we were altogether on 9/11 -- and the country was together after 9/11, especially when the president went to the churchesGÇöyou said there was a special effort to recruit the politicalGÇöthe heavy lifters.
KUO: Absolutely. I mean, from the start, you know, from the start of this presidency whatGÇÿs been fascinating has been how they have handled the religious conservatives. When you go back to early 1999, what they did was they created sort of an underground network of pastors to go out and recruit other pastors.
And the way they were drawn into supporting President Bush wasnGÇÿt based on policy. It was based on sharing his testimony, obviously, a very real testimony. But this underground network of pastors then perpetuated this image of the pastor in chief.
Now, my main point in pointing this out for Christians is to understand that this isGÇöthat, you know, they have been misled into thinking of him as a pastor in chief. HeGÇÿs a president. Look at him that way, but also understand that Christians are being used by this White House to advance their own political ends.
And the Christians who are supporting him are well-meaning, wonderful people. My concern is that all of the partisanship, all of the passion, all this was stuff reflected very poorly in the name of Jesus which I think is something Christians really donGÇÿt want.
MATTHEWS: And you saidGÇöI think youGÇÿre saying if you fool me once itGÇÿs my fault, if you fool me twiceGÇöIGÇÿm sorry. If you fool me once itGÇÿs your fault, if you fool me twice itGÇÿs my fault, and youGÇÿre warning us. WeGÇÿll be right back with David Kuo to get his prescription coming out.
Later, weGÇÿll have reaction to what heGÇÿs saying from James Towey, the former director of the Bush administrationGÇÿs faith-based efforts, who the White House suggested we invite tonight.
YouGÇÿre watching HARDBALL on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: WeGÇÿre back with David Kuo, author of the new book GÇ£Tempting Faith,GÇ¥ and the former deputy director of President BushGÇÿs Office of Faith-Based Initiatives.
David, you wrote in your new book, GÇ£Tempting Faith,GÇ¥ quote, GÇ£National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person, and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as GÇÿridiculous,GÇÿ GÇÿout of control,GÇÿ and just plain GÇÿgoofy.GÇÿ The leaders spent much time lauding the president, but they were never shrewd enough to do what Billy Graham had done three decades before, to wonder whether they were just being used. They were.GÇ¥
And you stick to that, that they were used by this president and his political machine to get votes.
KUO: Absolutely. And IGÇÿve got to say, you knowGÇöwho was it, Shakespeare who said GÇ£Me thinks thou not protesteth too much?GÇ¥ ItGÇÿs been interesting to see the White HouseGÇÿs reaction to say it never, ever happened. I mean, never, ever? I mean, I think everybody criticizes somebody at some point in time. I mean, people criticize their kids. I think itGÇÿs kind of funny to hear the White House say no, it never, ever, ever, ever happened.
MATTHEWS: You know, I was lookingGÇöIGÇÿm trying to figureGÇöyou can probably help me with this. This coalition between the president and his party and the Christian evangelicals has not been totally without success.
You have two new members of the United States Supreme Court who are
certainly not liberals and certainly not secular peopleGÇöthatGÇÿs Judge
Alito and Judge RobertsGÇövery much popular, arenGÇÿt they? And you have a
partial abortion bill which has been passed by both houses and signed by
the president. ThatGÇÿs a lot of success, isnGÇÿt it
KUO: IGÇÿm not saying that the president hasnGÇÿt done anything. My point is that Christians need to be aware that they are being used, how theyGÇÿre being used, how they are being viewed. If Christians are happy with what heGÇÿs done thatGÇÿs fantastic.
My disappointment also, as I talked about, is his compassion agenda. WhatGÇÿs become of that? ItGÇÿs been interesting, actually, to see people who respond to me. I kept wondering why the White House wasnGÇÿt sending anybody from within the White House to respond. They kept sending two very good people out, like Jim Towey, whoGÇÿs a great guy.
MATTHEWS: HeGÇÿs coming out tonight.
KUO: HeGÇÿs a great guy, a compassionate guy, and heGÇÿs gone from the White House for a long time now. And I kept wondering why that is. And I realized people in the White House probably donGÇÿt have anyGÇöthe White House probably doesnGÇÿt have anybody capable of talking about the compassion agenda because it was such a low priority.
MATTHEWS: Let me exploit you for a minute because youGÇÿre on the show, and weGÇÿll help you with your book, but youGÇÿve got to help me with this one. You worked with the president close enough to sense his motivation about the war in Iraq. Sometimes it seems messianic, like he runs out of arguments, he gets desperate and he almost talks as if he has a calling to do this. WhatGÇÿs your sense of that?
KUO: You know, in no way do I portray myself as somebody who is some great intimate of the president. You know, I didnGÇÿtGÇöI wasnGÇÿt part of his most senior staff. I didnGÇÿt see him on a daily basis. I didnGÇÿt do that. So in a way IGÇÿm limited.
And in the book, what I talk about isnGÇÿt based on how I am or my access. ItGÇÿs about what I saw as a Christian in politics. You know, can I base on my speculation does he think that heGÇÿs called to office? Yes, I think he does. Do I think he believes in what heGÇÿs saying? Yes, absolutely I do.
MATTHEWS: OK, David Kuo. Thanks for joining us on HARDBALL. The book is called GÇ£Tempting Faith,GÇ¥ making a lot of noise at the White House.