Below is the Hardball link and transcript of George Allen being interviewed by Chris Matthews on Wednesday, May 24. After that interview is the analysis of it with guests Kate O'Bierne of the National Review and E.J. Dionne of the Washington Post.
Below that transcript is the link and NewsMax article titled "George Allen: 'Let's Win This One First'" which in my opinion was tougher on George Allen's controversial background than Chris Matthews was.
Matthews did not bring up what NewsMax did about Allen having "a picture of Confederate troops in his governor's office" which goes way beyond "certain things that all of us have done when we were kids that may not make much sense 30, 40 years later" which Allen kept on using as his excuse!
George Allen also would not give a straight answer about his running for President in 2008 and Kate O'Bierne answered "I do" when asked about Allen being "one of the real frontrunners for the Republican nomination."
So why is George Allen even running for the Senate in 2006? Allen needs to be constantly pressed very hard for a straight answer to that question because the real answer to it is that his 2006 Senate race is a fundraiser for his 2008 plans to run for President as well as a consolation prize to fall back on in case he does not win in 2008!
That is the bottom line to why George Allen is running for the Senate in 2006!
Please support James Webb in his campaign against George Allen because he is far more electable and qualified to run against George Allen than Harris Miller is in a post 9/11 world being a former Navy Secretary!
Please forward this on, especially to people in Virginia for the June 13 Democratic primary!
Mitch Dworkin
http://www.securingamerica.com/
http://securingamerica.com/webb
Gen. Wes Clark's endorsement of Jim Webb against George Allen
http://www.webbforsenate.com/
Jim Webb for Senate website
http://webb.bluestatedigital.com/page/s/join
Sign up to receive Jim Webb for Senate campaign E Mails!
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12971704/
'Hardball with Chris Matthews' for May 24
Read the transcript to the Wednesday show
Guests: Kate O+óGé¼-£Bierne, E.J. Dionne, George Allen
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. We+óGé¼-£re back with Senator George Allen. Many people think+óGé¼GÇ¥he+óGé¼-£s certainly running for re-election in Virginia, Senator, we know that. That+óGé¼-£s true. And you may be running for president. Is that true?
ALLEN: We+óGé¼-£ll see what happens in the future. One thing I do know, I+óGé¼-£m running for re-election and I hope the people of Virginia accord me with their trust to keep working for them in Washington.
MATTHEWS: Well part of being considered as a potential presidential candidate by the great mentioner, whoever he is, you+óGé¼-£re under a special spotlight right now. There+óGé¼-£s been a lot of stories written now about the fact that you used to have a confederate flag in your living room, a noose in your law office and that you were in your high school yearbook wearing a confederate flag pin. Explain.
ALLEN: Explain, as a kid and in college, yes, I was a maverick anti-establishment and there+óGé¼-£s certain things that all of us have done when we were kids that may not make much sense 30, 40 years later. As far as all of that+óGé¼-£s concerned, I looked at the confederate flag and the Virginia flag and the Betsy Ross flag. I like flags, I collected them, it was part of a collection. And it was in my own home.
MATTHEWS: What was the kick you got out of it? Was it to be a maverick as you say? Was it to be an oddball out, just a kid who does what nobody else he is supposed to do, to be a little naughty, what+óGé¼-£s the message?
ALLEN: The message+óGé¼GÇ¥what my message is when I was a teenager, generally I was one who liked that bumper sticker, +óGé¼+ôquestion authority.+óGé¼-¥ And I didn+óGé¼-£t look at the confederate flag or anything other than historic or regional pride issue, in Virginia, it+óGé¼-£s part of the history of Virginia.
I do recognize and have grown through the years and recognize that particularly since the confederate flag has been used and appropriated by hate groups, the Klan and others, that for others it means something much different than history or heritage. Or like on the top of the +óGé¼+ôDukes of Hazard+óGé¼-¥ car or something like that. And so I wouldn+óGé¼-£t want to harm or disparage anyone, and so I+óGé¼-£ve learned a lot over the years, and have grown.
MATTHEWS: What about the noose in your law office? Why would you display a noose?
ALLEN: Oh, somebody brought a noose in. I had a western motif in my office. I buckarooed on ranches out West, primarily in Nevada and also Idaho, and I had wagon wheels and lassos and chaps and all that. And somebody brought in a little old noose and we had it, it was on my secretary+óGé¼-£s desk for a short period of time.
MATTHEWS: So that wasn+óGé¼-£t part of your maverick streak?
ALLEN: No, no. That was actually+óGé¼GÇ¥that was somebody said, oh, this will fit in with all your cowboy stuff that you have here in your office. I still have the wagon wheels and oh, the horse collars or mule collars and those sort of things. I had the single trees and so forth, all sorts of things in that office, that I collected over the years and it was a western motif.
MATTHEWS: Well great. Well let me ask you this. Are you surprised that there+óGé¼-£s been so much press coverage, these little facts about your past. I didn+óGé¼-£t think it was a big story and I got online late this afternoon and I looked at+óGé¼GÇ¥I mean, seven or eight right up front, all these news stories, the +óGé¼+ôAmerican Prospect,+óGé¼-¥ +óGé¼+ôForbes,+óGé¼-¥ I+óGé¼-£m not raising issues. Are you surprised that this has grown as an issue? That paraphernalia you used to carry around?
ALLEN: Well, I guess that happens when you+óGé¼-£re running for office. Some people want to go back and see what you did in high school and when you+óGé¼-£re in university and so forth. I guess that just goes with the territory. I know who I am. I know how I grew up and I know they try to make all sorts of assertions out of this.
I grew up in a family where you don+óGé¼-£t care about someone+óGé¼-£s race, my father+óGé¼-£s teams. He cared about teams I played on, you don+óGé¼-£t care about someone+óGé¼-£s religion or ethnicity or race. You care about whether they can help the team win. My father told us kids, hey, be like Deacon Jones. He was a role model that my father wanted for our kids.
And so yes, I was rambunctious. Was I a maverick? Was I anti-establishment? Did I go+óGé¼GÇ¥I didn+óGé¼-£t fit in in a lot of places but that+óGé¼-£s the way I was and somewhat that way now. But I also have learned through the years and I think all of us have grown, we learn, certain symbols back then meant one thing and now to some people they mean something else now. And I+óGé¼-£m much more cognizant of it and respectful.
MATTHEWS: Big question, last question, Senator. Are we better off without an immigration bill than some papered-over bill like the Simpson-Mazzoli 20 years ago?
ALLEN: I think we+óGé¼-£re better of if we secure the borders. That+óGé¼-£s the one thing there+óGé¼-£s a consensus on here in this country and that is if this bill, this convoluted three-tiered approach that+óGé¼-£s going to cause a lot of document fraud. And I don+óGé¼-£t think it will become law, I think that if this fails, what we ought to do in appropriations bills is get the money there for fencing along the border, for sensors, for more border personnel, more detention centers.
And I think that if we can slow down and I think stop the flow of illegal entry into this country, the American people would appreciate it, and it+óGé¼-£s what they expect out of their government.
MATTHEWS: Great to have you on. Please come back, Senator George Allen of Virginia, running for re-election, perhaps running for president if a couple of years.
Up next, what special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is up to at the CIA leak probe. Former federal prosecutors explain what+óGé¼-£s going on behind the scenes coming up. And later former New York City police commissioner Bernard Kerik plays some HARDBALL. You+óGé¼-£re watching HARDBALL on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: We+óGé¼-£re back with the +óGé¼+ôNational Review+óGé¼-£s+óGé¼-¥ Kate O+óGé¼-£Beirne and the +óGé¼+ôWashington Post+óGé¼-£s+óGé¼-¥ E.J. Dionne. We had, of course, on the show tonight George Allen, who I think is going to be one of the real frontrunners for the Republican nomination. Do you guys agree?
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: I do.
MATTHEWS: E.J.?
DIONNE: Less than did I about six months ago. I think he+óGé¼-£s lost some ground.
MATTHEWS: OK, well let+óGé¼-£s talk about his problems, and I don+óGé¼-£t know whether it+óGé¼-£s a big problem or not, but it+óGé¼-£s kind of the screening you+óGé¼-£ve got to go through and I+óGé¼-£ve got to play my part which is to investigate old questions.
Back when he was a young lawyer, I guess, he used to keep a noose in his law office. He used to keep a confederate flag in his living room. Of course, he+óGé¼-£s running+óGé¼GÇ¥he+óGé¼-£s in office in Virginia. Also used to wear in high school a confederate flag pin.
His answer kind of general. He gave kind of a general answer, nothing new what he thought. He said, +óGé¼+ôI was a maverick. I was anti-establishment. There+óGé¼-£s certain things that all of us have done when we were kids that may not make much sense 30 or 40 years later.+óGé¼-¥
That was the basically his argument. You know, as part of my maverick naughtiness I think I put some words in his mouth, but that was where he was. E.J., is this something that anybody can actually use against him?
DIONNE: I don+óGé¼-£t know if it hurts you in the Republican primary, but it might hurt you in the general election.
MATTHEWS: Explain why it would not...
DIONNE: Well, the Republican Party has a very conservative set of voters and a lot of the early primaries are in the south. But I think in a general election it could hurt him, because I think he needs to say more than just how he was a maverick. For a lot of people, especially black people, the confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and oppression.
MATTHEWS: OK. OK, let+óGé¼-£s play this the other way.
Kate, suppose you+óGé¼-£ve found out that one of the guys who is a young candidate today, somebody in their 30s or 40s running for senator or something bigger, used to love to wear a Che Guevara T-shirt. I think that+óGé¼-£s, at this point, absolutely harmless because there is no fight with Che Guevara anymore. He was killed years ago by our side. Would that be a fair thing to use against somebody? A Che Guevara T-shirt?
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: Well, people bothered by it would be bothered by it not because he poses a current threat, a present threat, but because of what he represented which is ...
MATTHEWS: Would you vote against a person because they wore a Che Guevara T+é-«MD+IN_+é-«MDNM_-shirt in their 20s?
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: Alone? I would have questions. I would wonder what it meant.
MATTHEWS: What do you think would it mean that would bother you?
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: That this individual was an admirer of this brutal communist who, with blood on his hands, was responsible for the kind of oppression that revolution has given us.
MATTHEWS: It couldn+óGé¼-£t be+óGé¼GÇ¥well, how about+óGé¼GÇ¥let+óGé¼-£s think. People wear Karl Marx sweatshirts. I guess that+óGé¼-£s more ridiculous. They wear Einstein sweatshirts, we all grew up with those.
MATTHEWS: They were OK. I+óGé¼-£m trying to think of people doing things because they+óGé¼-£re a little bit naughty, they+óGé¼-£re a little wise guy. And whether that means anything more than I+óGé¼-£m a wise guy, you know, make you want of it.
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: Well, we have to recognize that the rules, the rules about the confederate flag have changed in fairly recent memory. There+óGé¼-£s every reason to believe that when George Allen was in California and wearing a confederate flag lapel pin, it was like the +óGé¼+ôDukes of Hazzard+óGé¼-¥ thing. What did it mean to him?
MATTHEWS: That+óGé¼-£s what he said.
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: Maybe it meant pickup trucks and beer and driving around with somebody who looks like Daisy.
MATTHEWS: But are you speaking with a forked tongue here, Kate?
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: It+óGé¼-£s only recently. It+óGé¼-£s not the ...
MATTHEWS: Because you+óGé¼-£re saying all these defensive things about him. E.J., I don+óGé¼-£t want to argue this. You do this. Say something to defend your buddy Che Guevara.
DIONNE: No, you know, I think what you need to do is ask somebody what did that mean? In other words, somebody is going to see somebody with a Che Guevara shirt and I think it is perfectly reasonable for Kate O+óGé¼-£Beirne to go to him and say what were you doing that for? Do you still believe+óGé¼GÇ¥what did you believe them, what do you believe now?
And I think that Allen needs to go beyond just, oh, I was a rebel. I was just doing this because I wanted to be like some guy on the +óGé¼+ôDukes of Hazzard.+óGé¼-¥ I don+óGé¼-£t think that works.
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: But he+óGé¼-£s a ...
MATTHEWS: You+óGé¼-£re being very judicial E.J. Do you find, would you wear a Che Guevara T-shirt right now?
DIONNE: I think this is a problem. No, I wouldn+óGé¼-£t.
MATTHEWS: Why? Why wouldn+óGé¼-£t you wear one?
DIONNE: Because I+óGé¼-£m not a communist. I+óGé¼-£m on the Democratic left.
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: Unfortunately, they+óGé¼-£re extremely popular.
(CROSSTALK)
O+óGé¼-£BEIRNE: I have to hope a bunch of kids wearing them currently, because they+óGé¼-£re pretty popular+óGé¼GÇ¥actually don+óGé¼-£t understand who he is and what did he. George Allen is a lucky man. This confederate flag stuff is going to sound pretty old by 2008.
MATTHEWS: Probably by asking you about it tonight it begins to erode already. However, I like this Che Guevara question, too, because I think there+óGé¼-£s some people out there on the left who maybe are wearing one. We+óGé¼-£ll see pictures of those some day.
Anyway, thank you E.J. Dionne, thank you Kate O+óGé¼-£Beirne.
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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/14/220310.shtml?s=ic
Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:54 p.m. EDT
George Allen: 'Let's Win This One First'
Republican Sen. George Allen of Virginia had hoped for an easy slide to re-election and, from there, a launching pad to the presidency.
So far, it hasn't worked out that way.
A loyal foot soldier for President Bush, the Virginia lawmaker faces a surprisingly tough re-election campaign that is keeping him pinned down in his state while other Republican presidential hopefuls traverse Iowa, New Hampshire and other important places in the 2008 nomination fight.
Just as worrisome, the Senate campaign has already dredged up a few unpleasant issues - both personal and political - that could shadow his plans for 2008.
Virginia Democrats on June 13 will choose Allen's opponent - either former Reagan administration Navy Secretary James H. Webb or businessman Harris Miller. Many national party leaders say Webb, a Republican-turned-Democrat and best-selling author, is their best hope for taking the seat.
Allen accuses unnamed Democratic forces of running a smear campaign against him."I have no question that national Democrats are after me," the former Virginia governor said in an interview.
Allen spoke at a picnic table at the Rockingham County Fairgrounds. A pink sky framed the Shenandoah Mountains and cast him in a soft light. He had just raised $25,000 at a campaign event - shaking hands, slapping backs, singing country music and outlining a hardline conservative agenda.
The event highlighted his strength as a politician, a good-ol'-boy likability that may wear well in places such as Iowa where retail politics still matters. It took place beneath a pavilion filled with GOP donors and the aroma of beef and manure.
"This is my kinda place!" Allen shouted. He picked thin slices of beef from the buffet tray, tilted his head back and dangled the meat above his mouth before dropping it in.
"My kinda place!"
An aide tossed him a football. The football gets tossed at every Allen event - one ritual among many that raises the question of whether his country-boy shtick is affected as it is effective.
This crowd loves it.
"Hail the next president," yelled John Root, a local farmer.
When the band asked him to join, Allen said he only sings in public when, "I've had two beers - and the audience has had four."
The joke is such a hit he repeated it a few minutes later.
Now he's spitting mad - literally.
Pinching his lower lip between two fingers, Allen yanks it down to his chin and smears a gooey dab of smokeless tobacco along his gums. He is answering questions about an article in The New Republic magazine that details his past affinity with symbols of the bygone South.
Allen used to keep a Confederate flag in his living room, a noose in his law office and a picture of Confederate troops in his governor's office.
He said he knows better now.
"I understand how ..." He paused briefly and starts again. "People over the years ..." Another pause. "I've grown."
The Confederate flag is not just a symbol of regional pride, Allen said. "For many people, it represents segregation or represents racism and I recognize that."
But for all his folksy, down-home pretense, Allen has no Dixie roots.
His father, also named George Allen, was a famed football coach who kept his family on the move. The senator was born in California, lived in the Chicago suburbs for eight years, returned to California for high school and attended college in Virginia after his father became head coach of the Washington Redskins.
In his high school yearbook photo, Allen is wearing a Confederate flag pin. He said he cannot remember why, but suspects the pin was part of a nonconformist phase. He said a pal wore one, too.
"We probably did it for some sort of - I don't know what you call it - for the fun of it," Allen said, spitting tobacco juice between his cowboy boots. "It wasn't any major statement."
In the magazine article, classmates recalled Allen driving California's streets in a red Mustang with a Confederate plate. Some spoke of a graffiti-spraying incident and said it was racially tinged. Allen said he was suspended for the prank aimed at an opposing basketball team but denied writing anything racial.
In college, he embraced his new Southern life - playing country music, wearing cowboy boots, backing Richard Nixon and once shooting a squirrel on campus. He skinned it, ate it and hung the pelt on his wall, according to The New Republic.
Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia classmate who is now a political scientist at the school, said voters outside Virginia will not appreciate the senator's Southern stylings.
"They're going to find Allen in some ways socially unacceptable, not just politically unacceptable," Sabato said.
For every example of open-mindedness Allen can cite - such as his efforts as a senator to get more money for black colleges - Democrats can cite such things as the proclamation he signed as governor to declare a Confederate History and Heritage Month.
It praised the South's "four-year struggle for independence" and made no mention of slavery.
Then there is his relationship with his sister, Jennifer Allen Richard, who wrote a book, "Fifth Quarter," about growing up the daughter of a football coach. Her eldest brother comes across as a bully who, among other things, cracked her boyfriend on the head with a pool cue.
"George hoped someday to become a dentist," she writes. "George said he saw dentistry as a perfect profession - getting paid to make people suffer."
Reached by phone in Los Angeles, Richard said the pool cue incident was a joke. Allen was simply testing her boyfriend's reflexes.
As for the dentist quote, she said the book was written from the perspective of a young girl surrounded by older brothers and a larger-than-life father. She called it "a novelization of the past."
A part-time journalist and mother of three, Richard said she has a great relationship with her brother. When she got married, Allen filled in for her deceased father and walked her down the aisle.
"He was crying more than anybody," she said.
---
By most accounts, Allen was a popular one-term governor. He presided over the GOP realignment of Virginia politics and easily won passage of his legislative priorities: abolishing parole, downsizing welfare and imposing education standards. He also evolved politically, entering office as a fierce partisan and leaving a more mellow pragmatist.
He has changed as a senator, too, shifting toward the right on assault weapons and gay rights, drawing charges of flip-flopping from Democrats.
Allen's voting record in the Senate tracks closely with Bush's agenda, but he does not play that up.
"People know me. They don't look at me as a Bush Republican," he said. Allen argued that the distance has nothing to do with Bush's anemic approval ratings, which have Republican candidates everywhere running for cover. And yet, Allen has no problem calling himself a Reagan Republican.
He said he is focused on the fall. But he cannot ignore the future.
"Hello, Mr. President!" shouted a supporter as he grabbed Allen's hand.
"Well," replied the slick Southern charmer, "let's win this one first."
+é-¬ 2006 Associated Press.