Bush Speaks, Dow Plummets: Open Thread on McBush Economic Meltdown

By: Lowell
Published On: 10/10/2008 2:56:59 PM

The Dow is currently (2:58 pm) down 428 points. Heckuva job, Commander Codpiece! :)

P.S. And remember, if you like this, you'll just LOOOOVE John McCain. Oh yeah, speaking of McCain...his  campaign manager says that "There's very little a candidate for president can say and very little the president can say about what's happening in the stock markets except hope that they correct themselves."  Yeah, that must be why John McCain made such a big to-do about "suspending" his campaign, and why McCain's pal Dubya keeps getting on TV and addressing the nation about this.  Maybe Davis is right in one sense, though; given that John McCain himself admits that economics is NOT his strong suit, he's probably better keeping his mouth shut on this one. Plus, didn't the McCain campaign say the other day that the more they talk about the economy, the more likely that they'll lose the election?


Comments



Crazy! (tx2vadem - 10/10/2008 3:32:42 PM)
We are wiping out 4 to 11 years worth of gains in some stocks.  What kind of sense does that make?  It's just the opposite of when people were paying astronomical prices for tech stocks in the late 90s.  Dominion's stock, who we know is not hurting as a regulated monopoly providing essential service, is back to 2004 prices today.  The much maligned Exxon Mobil is back to 2006 prices (and God knows they are not in any trouble).

Oil is below $80.  Natural gas is below $7, when this Summer is was peaking at $14.  Still thinking there was no speculation?  And if there wasn't, then supply must be super inelastic.  Gasoline prices at the pump might even sink below that psychological $3 a gallon threshold. ;)

Is it really this bad?



There was certainly SOME speculation, but... (Lowell - 10/10/2008 3:36:43 PM)
...I think that what commodities markets are reacting to right now is the PERCEPTION of demand going forward, what I've heard economists call "future fundamentals" or "forward fundamentals."  Yes, this is why economics is known as the "dismal science." :)  In all seriousness, with a near-vertical supply curve, it doesn't take large changes in demand (or expected demand) to cause major price changes.  Plus, there is some irrationality going on here, no doubt.


3 months ago I wondered (oldsoldier - 10/10/2008 8:58:46 PM)
What the Cheney gang would do with gas prices before an election that the Cheney gang needs to get another puppet (McCain to Replace Dubya) because when those who took over the republican party and control their puppets see a pile of money that is:

In some federal program that the "PRIVATE SECTOR" (meaning the fat cats at the top)have no way of getting and Social Security/Medicare is the main example, we (McCain/Bush contributors) need to get "privatized" so we can eliminate "socialism" and get our cut in the "free Market".

There are other piles of money out there that the McCain people would like to "Trickle UP" to their real supporters, who DON'T GIVE A C**P about gay marriage, flag burning, stem cell research and a host of other jingoes BECAUSE

THEY ARE RICH ENOUGH, courtesy of the so-called Kansas voters, to send their family members to whatever countries allow every thing they CLAIM they are against IN THE NAME OF GOD.

I apologize in advance for the rant. I served in "the Nam" as an intelligence advisor to the Vietnamese no more than  30 miles from where Jim Webb won his DSC a year later.  Check it out:  Hoi An south of DaNang and An Hoa (which we unfortunately joked about in 1967 because the SVN Government declared it an "Industrial Area".

Having returned to the fold, I have problems believing that "supply and demand" has any more effect amid the corporate warlords than "the phase of the moon."

Risk Management to Corporate Warlords means:  "Golden Parachute Contracts."

Management to me means:  "Reward Success and Punish Failure". Something has gone wrong with out system!  Did Man or GOD do it?



Understanding the Economy's Meltdown (aznew - 10/10/2008 4:19:39 PM)
With all the highfalutin economic discussion going on (which is, frankly, beyond me) and technical discussion about what happens in credit and stock markets (which I actually understand quite well after it happens, even if I am inept at predicting what will occur), we should not lose sight of a simple truth.

Our problems are the direct result of inadvisable, unsound, unfair and morally reprehensible policies enacted by the Bush Administration and foisted upon this country by know-nothing conservatives.

Even leaving aside the Bush Administration's incompetence, corruption and dishonesty, the remaining 5% which consisted of the good-faith implementation of conservative economic and foreign policy ideas was an unmitigated disaster.

Among the problems with Bush Administration economic governance:

1. Gross income growth inequality
2. A total abdication of regulatory oversight of markets and the banking system
3. An immoral and unfair tax code that put too much of an onus on the middle class
4. A complete lack of a rational approach to the declining supply of fossil fuels

Anyway, that is right off the top of my head, but the point is that we did not get into this fix because of some economic imperative over which we have no control. This debacle resulted directly from the actions of the Bush Administration and Conservative philosophy.

In a rational world, this would kill any hope of Conservatives to regain political leadership for the next 100 years, if not for ever.



Greenspan (tx2vadem - 10/10/2008 5:21:19 PM)
He knew there was a problem.  He had the power to stop it.  He did nothing.  And the same could be said for the other board members.  Greenspan can rightfully claim credit for two bubbles and two busts: the tech boom/bust, and now the real estate boom/bust.

Not that he was the only one at fault, but he certainly shares a heapin helpin of the blame.  And while Republicans were having their field day with undoing other regulations and undermining government, he was still in a position to do right and avert disaster.  But he just gave speeches to Congress so I guess that helps him sleep at night.



Greenspan = Fraud (aznew - 10/10/2008 6:28:05 PM)
I agree with about Greenspan's responsibility for much of this, especially his policies that were aimed at supporting economic activity through the creation of asset bubbles.

About two years ago, I was doing some research for an article (never published) about the coming recession. My jumping-off point was the persistent inverted yield curve back in mid to late 2006. Such an inversion has occurred six times since WWII, I believe, and was followed five times by a recession and once, in the early 1970s, by a severe economic slowdown that stopped just short of a recession.

Greenspan was arguing at the time, however, that this time it was different. His argument was that the US was flooded with liquidity from petro-dollars and Chinese economic expansion, and that should a flood of liquidity would continue for the foreseeable future. He maintained that petro-dollars would continue to flow, and given its size, China's economy would continue to expand, and the dollars those countries were earning had no place to go other than right back here.

Even I could see the flaw in his reasoning, so that suggests to me that it was more a rationalization of policies already implemented, than a factual basis for recommended policies.

What a fraud.



OK, it's really gotten bad! (Pain - 10/10/2008 6:49:43 PM)

Bill Gates isn't the riches man in the US!  We're all doomed!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27...



What About Merit Pay? (oldsoldier - 10/10/2008 8:28:18 PM)
Like Lowell, I'm a TR and FDR progressive (Libral if ya gotta in Palin talk)and while I like a "Fair" market a hell of of lot more than a "Free" market, I don't understand how CEO's, CFO's and other really competent people who would rather go to Europe or Asia and manage their companies than American Companies IF we don't guarantee them "Big Bucks" and a lot of perks should they screw up (I hope RK is a family site)whether they do good or fail.

BLOWS MY MIND THAT CORPORATE MANAGEMENT FAILURE is an American VALUE WE MUST REWARD!

WE don't need Tort Reform.  We need Corporate Law reform.  Guess how Roberts and Alito are going to vote!