It's been real. It's been fun. But...

By: Lowell
Published On: 6/3/2008 8:49:46 AM

...it hasn't been real fun.  The presidential primary season, that is.  Well, that's Richard Cohen's opinion, at least:

...I see little to be happy about, little that pleases my jaundiced eye. Yes, voter participation is way up and in the end, the Democrats will choose a woman or an African American and, to invoke that tiresome phrase, history will be made. But this messy nominating process has eroded the standing of both candidates. It has highlighted the reality that racism still runs deep and that misogyny, although more imagined than real, is not yet a wholly spent force. This is an ugly porridge that has been placed before us, turned rancid since the cold, pristine days of Iowa only five months ago. We were, with apologies to Bob Dylan, so much younger then.

Please use this as an open thread to discuss the primary season that began back in...I dunno, sometime last century I think.  Also, please feel free to comment on what you think will happen next (e.g., will the Democrats come together or fall apart?), the latest superdelegate news, the Montana and South Dakota primaries, Bill Clinton's latest meltdown, etc.  Thanks.

UPDATE: For what they're worth, here are some 5 pm exit poll #s.

Obama 55-39 in Montana
Clinton 54.7-45.3 in SD


Comments



With respect to Mr. Cohen (Silence Dogood - 6/3/2008 9:56:48 AM)
Democrats are 3 for 3 in special elections so far this year thanks in large part to the tremendous amount of organizing that's been done on the front end for the primary by both campaigns.  The idea that the primary has "eroded the standing of both candidates" in a way that the Republican noise machine wouldn't anyway is a farce of an argument made by someone who apparently has already forgotten which side invented "swiftboating," and his focus on Obama v. Hillary coupled with his easy dismisal of record-setting voter participation betrays the simplistic ignorance of one who thinks that elections are decided by the candidates when, in fact, they're decided by voters.

I'm also not particularly a fan of his assertion that misogyny is "imagined."  But that's a different kind of ignorance that we shall leave aside for the moment.

So, what do I think will happen next?  I think it will take Hillary a couple of days to do the math, but by now there aren't really any "undecided" superdelegates left, they're all simply uncommitted, and nobody knows better than Hillary and Obama who the uncommitteds are pulling for.  If Obama has enough superdelegates to seal the deal, she'll roll up the tent and call it a day.  I expect this to be the case.

A couple weeks from now, the Republicans won't be able to help themselves and will start digging in on Obama, and the general election will begin in earnest.  McCain will once again paint himself as a maverick by disagreeing with, well, himself.  Democrats will run millions of dollars of ads asking which John McCain we're supposed to be voting for this week.  He'll try and take credit for limited progress made in Iraq.  We point out that McCain doesn't know anything about economics and ask why millions of consumers are taking second jobs and pawning their valuables so they can pay the rising costs of corn and gas if things are supposed to be going so great.

Then we knock doors.

Then we make phone calls.

Then we win.



FYI (Doug in Mount Vernon - 6/3/2008 12:56:25 PM)
You could also point out that for all his bravado he appears not to know very much about foreign policy fundamentals either (vis-a-vis the differences b/w Sunni and Shiite, and why it makes sense to engage your adversaries in diplomacy).

Just sayin'....



clearly the big takeawy here is... (The Grey Havens - 6/3/2008 10:09:29 AM)
We all gave up on Mike Gravell far too early!


Amazed and energized, inspired by the process, excited about change (snolan - 6/3/2008 11:02:43 AM)
I know it has been a long primary, and it is not quite over yet; but I feel amazed and energized.  More people have managed to get a say in the process than ever  before; and that is a good thing.

Voter registration is up, and not just in late voting/caucusing states, but even in early states.  I have four friends and co-workers who have recently become new citizens of the United States after processing through length legal immigration paperwork; and all four of them tell me that people helped them register to vote as soon as they became citizens (technically not part of the process, but volunteers were present from both parties in all four cases).

Americans have had a chance to learn far more about the inner workings of party elections, and some concerns have come up - but people are trying to address them now, rather than during the general election.

It is likely that Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee, a real voice for change.  John McCain is as good a voice for change as the Republicans had this time around.  I find it interesting that the majority of both parties wanted real change (though they differ on how much and what to change).  There is even real interest in third party candidates this time, and I am very grateful for that; for as much as I have been working for Democratic candidates, I'd like to see the political scene in America open to several parties and for coalition governments to become the norm.  Coalitions of environmentally focused, popular focused, and civics focused groups working together instead of an uninteresting bi-partisan split.

I am a little disappointed that more attention has not been paid to verified voting and transparent and open election processes in every state, for I fear that elections can and have been skewed by a few percentage points in some states, and that it will continue to happen until we nationalize the procedures.

I am enormously grateful that Huckabee and the puritanical theocrats did not make it to the finals in either party (as a non-Christian, they make me very nervous).  I am hoping we can re-separate church and state, allow religious freedom for people of all faiths and philosophies and learn from each other by talking openly about our faiths and philosophies.

I am even more grateful that candidates from all parties are starting to talk about climate change and take the environment seriously.  This is one issue that brings us all together on this small blue planet.  We as a species could be in real trouble if we don't work together and solve some problems fast.  I am convinced we can solve them, we just need to get started.

It's also given me a chance to blog again, reconnect with my community, and even learn a little spreadsheet technology as I tracked delegate counts from different news sources.  2008 has been a very good year so far.  



I forgot two of the most inspiring changes (snolan - 6/3/2008 11:40:27 AM)
1) people who were previously apathetic are involved now

2) instead of 4-6 toss-up/battleground/purple states like the last two elections, a face-off between McCain and Obama is likely to give us ~21 toss-up states!!!  That is a huge difference and involves vastly more people, which is a good thing.

Check out Kos's excellent maps:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/3/1102/08063/782/527059

It will be very nice to see Virginia involved in the campaigns instead of ignored as very one sided.



Scott , I tend to agree on some points (Alter of Freedom - 6/3/2008 1:40:48 PM)
But I also want to point out that many here always tend to somehow see Warner and Kaine to a lessor extent as great achievers as Governor and though I agree Huckabee has issues (mostly social) that many of us find rather over the top, Huckabees fiscal policy and fiscal management of s state with quite less ecomomic development is commendable. Outside of social issues, he was certainly as far as records go one of the better Governors of the time. In fact many Republicans perceived his policy management as actually fairly liberal in comparison.

Right now though, and this is not a slap at either candidate, but to say one is "inspired by the process" I could not disagree more. In fact, I after Saturday I think we have found that the leadership (given the leaders of the rules are same as credential) are in fact an elitist bunch of bueracratic powercrats.

Independent of whether one supports Obama or Clinton because that is not the issue in terms of the process, these people mocked the entire process and in my view mocked the very principles that underpin the Party.

To count delegates as half votes is absurd to me and should be to every American regardless of Party. Our Founding Fathers counted African-Amercians as 3/5 th in order to keep the representation of southern states artificially lower. Now the Democratic leadership has sought to lower it to even less than that for the purposes of representation favoring one side over the other.

Florida is a travesty. Michigan? Fact is people removed their names from ballots voluntarily and all those were inlcuded in the "uncommitted" slate so how do we discern anything from that? Half votes. Are you kidding me?

I may not like it and may want Obama to come out on top in the end regardless but it should be fair and just in terms of the voters will and not the leaderships will.

The arguement made by many that this would have never gone down the way it has if Obama was on the other side of that coin goes to prove just how unjust we truly are and how much the fear of the "racial" tag still echoes the halls of our Party regardless of how much we would like to think its only a Republican issue. You can bet had Obama needed these full votes for his bid, they certainly would have been granted and there in lies the injustice that the leadership has determined to follow.

I do not support Hillary, but would like those in a position to lead the Party to actually lead by example and mirror our core values and principles and not make it hope as they see fit simply because we need to get on with the General.



It's over. (Silence Dogood - 6/3/2008 11:05:31 AM)
From the AP: "Hillary Rodham Clinton will concede Tuesday night that Barack Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, campaign officials said, effectively ending her bid to be the nation's first female president."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cli...



It's not over. (Silence Dogood - 6/3/2008 12:03:15 PM)
From Reuters: Campaign officials dispute report Clinton will concede.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...



Make up your mind :-) (Eric - 6/3/2008 12:05:46 PM)
This evening will certainly be interesting.  And hopefully we'll see the end of this fight so we can put the focus where it belongs - on McSame.


Leave it to a Clinton to find a way to triangulate losing. (Silence Dogood - 6/3/2008 12:18:34 PM)
Apparently their plan as of the last 20 minutes is that they're not going to concede that they lost, only that they didn't win.

For Pete's sake.



LOL (Doug in Mount Vernon - 6/3/2008 12:59:57 PM)
But yet, we SERIOUSLY need to reach out IN EARNEST and talk to Clinton supporters, and ask them to join us and fight for what we ALL know is right & necessary--a major shift in direction for this government.

Clinton supporters have stuck with their candidate, and that is to be admired--I admire it having been a Dean supporter even past the scream...

She fought for the people she believed she needed to fight for, and we ought to invite that spirit and that energy into the fold to make sure evil is triumphed by good in this election....sorry to cast it in such Reaganist light, but it seems to fit, doesn't it?



Democracy is messy (Rebecca - 6/3/2008 12:20:53 PM)
The Democrats are great because they can fight it out. We need to expose all the negative if we are to get to the positive.

The Republicans love order and they love to follow orders. We all know where that eventually leads. Let's celebrate the fact that we can differ in our opinions and make our case without being thrown in jail (most of the time). Was it Winston Churchill who said Democracy is a very bad system, but its much better than all the rest?

In fact, I would love it if we had a question and answer session for the president like the British have for their prime minister. I just love all the yelling, but that's just me.



AP says Obama has enough delegates and has effectively won the nomination (uva08 - 6/3/2008 1:56:53 PM)


An amazing process (hereinva - 6/3/2008 2:55:39 PM)
This primary season opened up many doors of discussion that in the past, have been swept under rugs for the sake of expediency: Get It Over QUICK !

Racism, sexism, ageism have bubbled up from "whisper campaigns" into front and center issues and concerns. Clinton and Obama had to openly face these issues head on, and the Democrats will come out stronger as a result. No doubt the RNC "scare machine" will pour it on for November.

I watched some of the DNC By-laws/Rules Committee meeting on Saturday. Despite the arguments and tempers, I was impressed by the diversity of members seated at the table.
Diversity is the Democrat's strength.

Agree that the process is messy and flawed..but Mr. Rogers said it best: "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat! "

   



Obama Rally on Thursday? (Barbara - 6/3/2008 3:11:35 PM)
Anyone know the details of this as reported in today's Post?  I didn't see anything on the Obama web site.
The Obama campaign is also organizing a Thursday-night rally in Northern Virginia. For the moment it has been billed as a typical event, but it could turn into a major spectacle featuring numerous party luminaries, depending on the events of the next few days.



Yes... (varealist - 6/3/2008 5:46:19 PM)
Please join Barack Obama for a Rally in Prince William County, where he'll talk about his vision for bringing America together and creating the kind of change we can believe in.

Rally with Barack Obama

Nissan Pavilion
7800 Cellar Door Drive
Bristow, VA

Thursday, June 5th
Doors Open: 3:00 p.m.
Program Starts: 6:00 p.m.



FYI - they are asking for an RSVP (snolan - 6/3/2008 5:53:50 PM)
Not mandatory, open to public no ticket required, but asking for an RSVP.


RSVP (Lowell - 6/3/2008 5:55:57 PM)
right here


Fun? (Jack Landers - 6/3/2008 3:54:39 PM)
This has been fun like a root canal.

You know, for years I'd always thought 'boy it would be really cool to have the kind of primary schedule some day where it went all the way to the last state and into the convention.' The idea of it seemed like a political junkie's dream.

I take it all back. This sucks. Lets never do this again. Iowa and New Hampshire, it's all yours as far as I'm concerned.

This has been the longest, stupidest primary campaign of any kind that I have ever witnessed. And even now, after having seen so many moments where we all said 'oh she HAS to drop out now,' I still don't quite believe that this is it today. I just don't believe that Clinton will ever be a good sport and leave the race and let us get on with the general election.

Maybe on Wednesday afternoon, she's going to start saying that Obama hasn't REALLY clinched the nomination, since he depends on super delegates who have the right to change their minds. And she'll take it all the way to a floor fight at the convention. I just don't believe that it's really over. I'm too shell-shocked.



VP?: she's the Energizer bunny (j_wyatt - 6/3/2008 4:08:35 PM)
Clinton says she's open to being Obama's VP

WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has told congressional colleagues she would be open to becoming Barack Obama's vice presidential nominee, saying she would consider it if it would help Democrats win the White House. ...



NOOOOO! (Jack Landers - 6/3/2008 5:17:03 PM)
I just want it to be over. No Hillary Clinton as a running mate. Please. Because then it doesn't really end, does it? Then we've still got her out there on TV every day, saying the same stupid stuff and making us look bad. More of this 'sniper fire' type crap that makes her (and thus us) look like idiots.

Just imagine the intra-campaign fighting. Clinton's people constantly at odds with Obama's. Competing messages, themes, styles and ideas about how politics should be practiced. It would be a horrible mess.



She is old. (j_wyatt - 6/3/2008 5:54:32 PM)
Not in age, but that she is part and parcel of all that came before that got us to where we are now.  That she and Bill don't understand that -- "experience" -- is exactly why she has lost the nomination and why she would pull the ticket down to defeat.

Jim Webb is actually a year older than Hillary Clinton, but exudes new, fresh, young.  

We want to, need to, turn the page.  Whoops, speaking of old, let's rephrase that.  We need to restart.



I disagree... (Doug in Mount Vernon - 6/3/2008 6:14:24 PM)
I have been an Obama supporter since Feb '07.

But if Clinton is interested in becoming the VP, I think Obama should extend that olive branch.  It would unite an INCREDIBLY strong ticket and I do believe it would be invincible.

I also believe that Clinton still has the interests of this country at heart, and would make one hell of a replacement (or a Cheney-like VP who just rides it out) once Obama is done with his 8 years.....

I honestly think it could only make the party stronger and unite us in an amazing way...



What about independents? (Lowell - 6/3/2008 6:26:02 PM)
Would an Obama/Clinton ticket mainly appeal to the Democratic base or what?


Or what (snolan - 6/3/2008 7:55:27 PM)
I believe Clinton damages Obama's change credentials if she is on the ticket, and I believe she damages it enough to kill the very likely win in November.

Obama/Clark, Obama/Richardson, Obama/Webb - I think they all stand to win by 15-20% over McCain and anyone but Huckabee, McCain/Huckabee buys an additional 5-10% theocrat support from the nut-jobs.

Obama/Clinton corrupts the whole idea of Obama for change.  Shows him to be part of the machine we are trying to change.  He loses 25% of his support instantly, perhaps even more over time as the Republican smear machine attacks both Clintons.  That combo would cost us the election that is pretty close to guaranteed without her.

By the way, Clinton/Clark or Clinton/Vilsack appeals to a totally different Democratic drive, and I think she'd win against McCain/anyone-but-Huckabee.



Obama/Warner (Alter of Freedom - 6/3/2008 8:23:46 PM)
All over Chris Mathews tonight. Obama needs Virginia a "benchmark" if he is to prevail.


Jack has a important point here!! (McGuffin - 6/3/2008 8:31:28 PM)
This will be a dilemma. Is the Obama camp even considering this? I kind of figured it went up in smoke with the Bobby Kennedy foot-in-her-big-mouth mishap(I personnaly think Obama needs to pound a stake into her heart, just to be on the safe side)I'd love to see Sen. Jim Webb on the ticket, but the real big question still remains:

How disgruntled are the clinton supporters going to be??

When Hillary comes out and says (just hours ago) She'd be open for the VP slot, I think that's ClintonSpeak for, you better give me the VP slot or else.

I don't know. I really do not know. Does Obama really need her to carry the Clinton supporters or would it just drag him down?

This worrys me.



It's triage, plain and simple. (j_wyatt - 6/3/2008 9:18:24 PM)
Electoral math is ruthless.

If McCain is to be beaten, ruthless electoral math trumps every other possible consideration.

If Clinton is not the VP, are her women supporters in the big electoral states really going to vote for McCain?  It's all about Roe v Wade.  

The election hinges on white males in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia.  Whoever wins that demographic in three of those five states takes the presidency.

Jim Webb vs. Hillary Clinton as Obama's running mate?  Who best will appeal to those key voters?



If thats true (Alter of Freedom - 6/3/2008 11:30:41 PM)
If it is "all about Roe v. Wade" then it truly is a sad day in American politics that the hopes of our future lies in the hands of a single narrow minded issue.


I think he meant (snolan - 6/4/2008 8:01:43 AM)
it's all about Roe v Wade now for the just the extreme Clinton supporters (which I figure is a very small portion of her supporters).

I don't think he was implying it was all about Roe for most Americans.

I am not sure - just a thought.



God I hope not (Alter of Freedom - 6/4/2008 2:57:56 PM)
The two most divisive issues in America are so narrow minded in boils my blood, the issue of Roe v. Wade being the first and the seconf being a defintion of marriage act. Niether of these belong in our legislature let alone our courts.


You are correct, sir. (j_wyatt - 6/4/2008 3:16:49 PM)
The election is not going to be won on the left, but in the middle.

Despite their outrage at losing the Democratic nomination to Obama, feminist Clintonistas know that electing McCain would mean that Roe v Wade is toast.  With that signature issue at stake, they are not going to vote for McCain or sit on their hands on election day.

It's conservative Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans who hold the key to this election.

From here on out, it's all about winning -- and that's winning within the rules and parameters of the electoral college game.



Webb, Webb, Webb, Webb, Webb! (DanG - 6/3/2008 5:50:01 PM)


Sorry it's hurt... (snolan - 6/3/2008 5:24:30 PM)
On the bright side, Obama was unknown when this started, and now people are beginning to think they know who he is.  Time to read and hand out his books...

I can't believe the number of people who claim he has no policies... I point out his web site has them all for anyone to read.  Amazing.

Get some rest; hope you feel better after a few days away from the news.



if they know who he is ... (j_wyatt - 6/3/2008 5:56:48 PM)
Then why are "they" netting out like this?:

McCain 45% vs. Obama 45%

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-...



Real Clear Politics is better average (DanG - 6/3/2008 6:25:42 PM)
pollster uses every poll, even from orgs that aren't yet proven.  RCP has been closer than Pollster in most of the races.


Inclusion (tx2vadem - 6/3/2008 10:24:38 PM)
What has been great is that people who would have never had a voice in this process did.  We truly lived up to our party's name in this process, where all 50 states in the union and all US territories got to participate and really have a meaningful say in who our party's nominee is.  Organization in every state, advance staff in every state, visits by the candidates to every state.  Even in the reddest of red states, we were there.  It the fullest realization of the 50 state strategy.

Each campaign had the great opportunity to sharpen their skills.  And all this attention we got is attention that was deprived of the Republicans.

There may be a minority of Obama supporters and a minority of Clinton supporters who cannot build a bridge and get over it.  But on the whole this has been for good.



It is my "audacity of hope" (Alter of Freedom - 6/3/2008 6:23:12 PM)
That Obama not only unifies all this but also reaches out to unify the country better than those who say that they support or do his bidding. He will have the platform tonight to address the entire country not just the Democrat Party and hopefully he will put it to great use.

I hope that he acknowledges the sacrifice of those in our armed forces and identifies the most recent Medal of Honor winner has being a great American. This will help him with the independents where the military issue is of great significance. I was saddened by the lack of coverage regarding the presentation of this medal to the serviceman parents, especially by those who claim to be so unbiased in the media. I hope Obama acknowledges leadership and sacrifice in a very distinct way...the way in which people live their lives and not simply from a politico reality.

I have never doubted Obama cares for the troops in the field, but tonight would be great start for him to recognize the sacrfice and bravery and also announce his intent to visit Iraq. Screw the idea that he would look inferior to McCain if he goes. If he wants to be President and be a real Commander-in-Chief he must. He needs tonight to put this thing to bed and raise the bar tonight.

If he does not he will simply be bundled in with those like Keith O. who fail to acknowledge a single positive accomplishment or act of bravery in an unbiased and American way. Forget the politics, that would be a great change result in supporting Obama we would hope, and acknowledge that the acts of people like Olbermann are shameful when the choice not to recognize a Medal of Honor winner because it was earned in a conflict or war that he fails to support.

Whether we support the War or not, the mena and women dererve the utmost respect and it is my hope that Obama takes a momment tonight to honor the sacrifices being made even if the policy under the current President is flawed. A veteran respectfully.



Nissan!!!!!! (pvogel - 6/3/2008 6:26:59 PM)
Obama at Nissan Pavilion!!!!!  Thursday     be ther at 3pm, rally at 6pm!!!!!  Spread the news.......


Massive traffic jams (Lowell - 6/3/2008 6:30:27 PM)
Good luck, I'm staying home!


If we only had (Eric - 6/3/2008 6:34:24 PM)
a working transportation plan.  sigh.

Maybe Obama will get stuck as well and send us transportation help after he becomes the next POTUS.



Ever tried to get out of Nissan Pavillion? (Barbara - 6/3/2008 7:16:35 PM)
Much as I want to go, I can't deal with the traffic.  It is a nightmare. I was hoping for Alexandria.  


Agreed. (Lowell - 6/3/2008 7:19:42 PM)
I'll go to an Obama rally when it's near a Metro stop.


Obama 10 delegates short (DanG - 6/3/2008 6:40:16 PM)
Barring staggering losses in both South Dakota and Montana, Barack Obama will be the Democratic Nominee.

It's been a long fight.  Now that it's over, I somehow find myself feeling symathetic towards Clinton.  Do I like her?  No.  Do I want her as VP?  Part of me thinks she's earned it, and it might be beneficial to party unity, but in the end i think Edwards, Webb, or Biden might be a better choice.



Hillary's Website Comments (JMUDemocrat - 6/3/2008 6:46:55 PM)
are scary! The supporters who are on her site are radical. on one hand they are pushing her to stay in a fight for womens rights, then on the other they say they will vote for McCain if she loses. They are saying some very scary things. I really hope that we can get her supporters back into the fold. I know that you will always have some radicals out there who will not come back, but we need the majority of her supporters to be successful in November. Hillary needs to come out hard for Barack and work hard to bring her supporters back into the fold. If you here angry dems saying they are voting for McCain, remind them about how many supreme court justices he will get to appoint if elected.  


nissan pt 2 (pvogel - 6/3/2008 7:00:17 PM)
Those of us  who decided for obama  a while back know that they should stay away from the traffic jam.

and  encourage others to go listen



Chris Matthews and Russert Pushing VA Reps for VP (JMUDemocrat - 6/3/2008 7:13:39 PM)
Matthews thinks Obama should pick Warner. He said "Obama should get him out of that senate race" Russert then mentioned Kaine and Webb. =)


Fox News Nut Job (JMUDemocrat - 6/3/2008 7:35:20 PM)
I just flipped past fox and heard some nut job pushing the rumor that some "bomb shell" video against Michelle Obama will drop tomorrow. This is unreal. I cannot believe they actually will let someone talk about this on their network. =(  


Par for the course (Lowell - 6/3/2008 7:36:53 PM)
at Faux News.


This is probably the alleged "whitey" video (Catzmaw - 6/3/2008 8:01:05 PM)
They've been wetting themselves over it for a week.  Some people claim that there is a video of Michelle Obama saying something about "whitey", while other people claim that the video actually says "why'd he do it" in a speech Michelle gave, but that it sounds like "whitey".  Was the whack job Roger Sloane?  He's the one who's been talking about "whitey" for days and claiming the video exists and that it shows Michelle Obama talking about "whitey".


My guess it is the video referenced at Howling Latina (aznew - 6/3/2008 8:07:20 PM)
According to a video posted there, it is a tape of Michelle Obama referencing white people as "whitey." According to the tape HL had, it had GOP operative and all-around scumbag Roger Stone hawking this story. I can't believe a supposedly progressive blog, albeit one that is firmly pro-Hillary, passed this along.

I won't link to it, because I refuse to traffic in this garbage, but if they are threatening a bomb shell video, that might be what Fox has.



It will probably be the one that has already been debunked (snolan - 6/3/2008 8:15:22 PM)
Damn, can't find it - but some nut-job bloggers were claiming last night they had incriminating video of Michelle Obama saying "whitey" this and "whitey" that, and they are clearly fools because she was talking about Bush and ranting (quite understandably) about "why'd he" this and "why'd he" that...

I guess we'll see if it's the same BS soon.



Fox news new name (pvogel - 6/3/2008 8:01:15 PM)
As the rain pours down here in alexandria, I dub the fox news network
The "All Rev Wright all the time network"

They obviousy think  that all Wright is the only chance  



Clearly they are contemplating voting for Wright (snolan - 6/3/2008 8:19:51 PM)
I know that I am not voting for Wright, but I guess they are concerned other voters are voting for Wright.  Faux news... really quite funny when you think of their rants... until you realize that some Americans think it really is news.

Le Sigh.



Yeah- Scott (Alter of Freedom - 6/3/2008 8:27:04 PM)
But at least they actually covered the Medal of Honor ceremony yesterday. MSNBC had a blurb on the web thats it--this obviously reflects there view of the unpopular war which is fine but they are hardly newsworthy either if they are not going to provide the public "actual news and events". Its sad.This will only get worse now with radio companies potentially mergering. Our news has gone all entertainment.


Four good sources of news in the United States today.. (snolan - 6/3/2008 11:09:00 PM)
LA Times
NY Times
BBC
Guardian

The only TV network listed is BBC.  There is a reason for that.  TV tends to thrill us...  the 4th estate no longer includes the US television networks... they bailed out years ago and went for entertainment and infotainment.

MSNBC is a little better than Fox, but not much.  Frankly DW (German) is better than both, though that is not saying much.

CBS clings to a vestige of it's former glory; but they've caved to thrills too - though at least they still scan the headlines



The NewsHour does a fine job (Lowell - 6/3/2008 11:11:28 PM)
but that's it, pretty much, for U.S. tee-vee news.


Hmm - I should give it another look-see... (snolan - 6/4/2008 11:10:37 AM)
I stopped watching for it ages ago...  some pretty white girl's disappearance got way too much coverage for me; and I stopped watching.


I'd add Al Jazeera..., (FMArouet21 - 6/4/2008 10:06:59 AM)
which has international coverage rivaling the quality of BBC. It is too bad that very few markets in the U.S. carry Al Jazeera TV coverage, but the website is worth checking daily. Here is a link:

Al Jazeera English Website.

And while I often watch Mathews and Olbermann on MSNBC, I tire of Mathews' narcissism and talking over his guests, and Olbermann's polemics can be histrionic, though I understand that Keith is the sole token progressive island in a vast swamp of corporatist diversionary "prolefeed."

If one follows the Middle East at all, Juan Cole's Informed Comment is essential daily reading.



Agreed, Al Jazeera gets more interesting, but Juan Cole simply rocks (snolan - 6/4/2008 11:09:17 AM)
Hell, scanning dKos, Juan Cole, TPM, Andrew Sullivan, and RK can be every bit as effective as reading the mainstream news so long as you follow the links to the sources and check them out.

Juan Cole is consistently excellent and one of the best sources of military news on the Middle East.  I really miss Steve Gilliard though.



Newstrust worthwhile? (Quizzical - 6/3/2008 11:40:22 PM)
I came across Newstrust recently.
http://www.newstrust.net/about/

Anybody familiar with it?