Why not separate the project? Why not build rail to Dulles down the right-of-way of the toll road from West Falls Church through Reston and to the airport (an at-grade railway, obviously), and hold off on Tysons until the proper underground solution can be figured out?

At least that way, we could begin to plan for increased density developments along the toll road corridor out to the airport, and then see what's best for the Tyson's area while taking our collective breath AND working to secure a more permanent funding basis for the whole WMATA system.  

Going down the right-of-way runs counter to efficient delivery of people to the places they wish to go.  One hundred and sixty thousand people work in Tyson's Corner.  The stations were located where they are because of the future transportation demand predicted for Tyson's Corner and to be fair to the various landowners.  You will note they are fairly equidistant and run through the middle of the city where density (workers and residents) already exists.  This protects the surrounding communities and insulates our neighborhoods from the city that will surely evolve.      

Additionally, running down the toll road requires a mode change which is inefficient and wastes people's time and more importantly disqualifies the project for federal funding which is essential to Dulles Rail's success.  

We have always said that we want the vertical alignment of the currently proposed plan to be put underground and that's it.  We don't advocate bypassing Tyson's, nor do we think it's a good idea to look at options that run counter to good transit policy in this particular application (such as BRT, monorails, transporters, light rail, etc.).  These other options simply confuse the debate and do not adequately supply the public's demand for efficient and well suited public transportation.        

but I'm still not convinced. I mean, this project has been discussed for going on 20 years, yet has never been made to work -- why? I am 100% with you on an underground option in Tyson's, the question in my mind is what's the best way to move towards that while reimagining what a comprehensive NoVa mass transit system might look like. This may involve new lines outright -- why are there no mass transit options in Seven Corners, Bailey's Crossroads, Annandale, Fairfax City, etc.?

Is it crucial that the Tyson's transit stops be part of the Dulles line? How much of the working population that works in Tyson's is from west of Tyson's out towards Reston and Loudoun, versus from other parts of Fairfax/Arlington?

I don't mean to disparage your work in any way, I just think it's time to get all the stakeholders together and sell a broad vision of a transit-oriented NoVa that we can build over the next 20-to-50 years. In my mind, if rail to Dulles is really a major goal in and of itself, then the Congress can fund that much more cheaply with a simple bypass from West Falls Church (or wherever), and still provide transit stops in Reston, Herndon, etc. The Tyson's solution can be added on later once a more thorough long-term plan has been developed.

We're going to have a lot of new blood in the Congress next year. We should ask them to think larger than what's been proposed so far. My $.02.  

"a broad vision of a transit-oriented NoVa that we can build over the next 20-to-50 years."  See the recent column by Marc Fisher for some ideas of what I'm talking about.  The bottom line is that, without a vision, we'll end up simply doing what we've always been doing, despite a world that has changed dramatically in terms of energy, the environment, human population, the patter of development, and many other factors.

"still not convinced".  In addition to what he points out, there are two other points nagging at me:

1. Isn't the Tysons area more spread out than a single line up the middle could reasonably support?  I've heard other people mention numerous times about the need for a circulator bus system of some sort because of the current layout.  Due to the automobile based sprawl design of Tysons a good number of businesses and residences will be outside of reasonable walking distance.  If this is the case, what difference does it make (except to a few land owners and business owners) if the rail line skirts Tysons and people are moved within the area via a local bus system (that will already be required)?

2. Could you explain how other options such as BRT, monorail, etc "run counter to good transit policy" and simply "confuse the debate"?   With all due respect, it sounds like you are only advocating a Metro rail solution.  That's fine if it's the job you're paid to do, but for a good number of us this is not a paid gig and we're looking for the best possible solution for the region - which should certainly include further study of many alternatives.

I am not paid and started TysonsTunnel.org as a volunteer because I thought it was crazy to put it above ground through Tysons Corner.  I live in the impact zone and work a few miles away.  Furthermore, the sole-source bothered me as well.  

1.)  Yes, a circulator system of Metro busses or privately run shuttle buses would be required to serve homes and businesses that are futher away from the rail system.  We might even see an at-grade light rail system that would serve this need.

2.)  I just sent Lowell a document that addresses the pro's and con's of BRT vs. LRT much more comprehensively, hopefully he will post it.  In a nutshell though:

A bus carries 60 to 80 people - a train carries 600 to 800 people.

Busses are slower than trains and are subject to delays in the road network.  

You need 10 times the number of drivers with BRT to move the same number of people.

BRT when successful is replaced by rail.

Buses last 5-10 years, trains last 20-30 years.

Buses are less environmentally friendly than trains.

Rail is more expensive to build but moves more people less expensively over time.

Operations and Maintenance per rider is higher with buses.

Without dedicated rights of way, buses get stuck in the same traffic.  

Buses have a rougher ride and only half as many people are willing to ride them.  

BRT should be used to complement Metrorail not compete with it.  

BRT has great applications and should be used on the north-south access to feed Dulles Rail.

I am advocating Metrorail in this instance since my organization is about placing rail under Tyson's corner not developing a comprehensive transportation policy or looking at alternatives.  Although I do agree that this should be done and completely support the idea.  This massive battle to put rail under Tyson's has been quite a challenge and I never imagined it would have been this difficult.  

I hope this helps.  Check out the www.apta.com which is the American Public Transportation Association.  It has more data on transit modes, costing, ridership and anything else you might be interested in learning about public transportation.  It's a great site!  

All I can say is, Scott knows his stuff!

Here it is.

Click here.

You pose an interesting question that I will try my best to answer.  The reason the project hasn't worked until now is because of a number of factors.  First, our national transit policy focuses money where it is needed most and favors dense, well populated, urban locals over less populated transportation corridors.  USDOT's funding criteria heavily favors projects which will have the most riders (over those that don't) and where built in residential/commercial demand for transit services already exists.  

This has favored cities over suburbs.  If you look at a 100 square acre plot in Washington and compare it to a 100 square acre plot in Annandale, you will find substantially more people live within the Washington acreage.  This creates a competitive situation for federal dollars that is very difficult for suburbs to win without bringing edge cities into the equation.  USDOT is willing to help underwrite expansion of transportation systems in less populated areas but with far less money.  And surprise, surprise the money is what is really making Dulles Rail happen now.

If you bypass Tysons Corner, you leave the following money off the table:  $900 million of federal funding and the $400 million landowner contribution.  That's $1.3 billion lost which would sink all prospects for Rail to Dulles any time soon.  The Tysons Corner ridership numbers qualify the project with the Feds enough to extend it to Whiele station in Reston (Approximately 11.6 miles and five stations).  This combined with the financial motive of increased development in Tysons and along the corridor is what has encouraged the money to get behind this project.  You take that away and the incentive is gone to build it.  

Another option to consider is for the Commonwealth or Counties to invest in transportation projects with little federal participation.  With Virginia's conservative fiscal policy and very friendly tax environment, this is unlikely to happen anytime soon without a major gas tax increase or some other user-fee-based way of funding capital improvements to our transportation network.  As gas prices fall, which hopefully will be soon, we could try and capture a slightly higher gas tax as prices fall minimizing the impact to the public.  We just absorbed a doubling of price for gas, so a 5 to 15 cent increase in the gas tax would be palatable if the price of gas dropped by a $1 - $2.  Here's where we stack up against other states:  

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasol...

Virginia ranks 11th lowest (37.3 cents per gallon), DC 13th lowest (38.4 cents) Maryland 32nd (41.9 cents) and West Virginia 39th (43.8 cents)    

At this time the public has been unwilling to support such an increase and until we agree to pay for these improvements and find a funding source I don't see a regional transit oriented system in our foreseeable future.

Hopefully this makes sense.    

From Jim Moran's live chat on the Washington Post this morning:

Falls Church, Va.: Leslie Byrne and Doug Denneny, two of the 11th Congressional District candidates, said Monday night they wouldn't support rail to Dulles unless it incluedes a tunnel through Tysons. Isn't the tunnel dead? Won't their opposition of rail to Dulles in any other form help kill the project? By the way, thank you for your leadership on getting rail to Dulles.

Rep. Jim Moran: I would prefer a tunnel through Tysons Corner for many of the reasons Mr. Denneny and Mrs. Byrne probably cite. But we have been told unequivocaly that it will cause a delay of almost a year to conduct an environmental review. Such a delay will knock the project out of the queue for $900 million in federal funding and effectively kill any federal involvement. Even under a Democratic administration, there are so many projects requesting funding with much lower costs per rider estimates that it is inconceivable that a federal earmark would ever be approved by Congress to get rail all the way out to Dulles.

Comments?

And this was over two years ago.  I wonder if it is still true considering the current status of the project and the fact that the sooner we start, the sooner we'll know.  Weren't we told that there would be a delay of a year or more, over 16 months ago.  We had time apparently.  I don't understand why something so reasonable appears impossible.  If USDOT or FTA aren't able to look at a better option that would provide the public a better project something is seriously wrong.  

That gives me some things to chew on. I would say, I don't think the price of gas is going down anytime soon, so I wouldn't hang hopes on that as fuel for increasing the state gas tax.

Just from my pov, I would rather forego federal funding now and do it right than be rushed into this deal. Waiting five more years to do Tyson's right, while looking at it in the context of our overall regional goals, seems prudent to me. Take what we can get from the feds for the starter line out to Dulles, and then plug in later.

What are really the goals of the Tyson's project as being part of the silver line as currently imagined? How many cars would we be taking off the roads now, and/or how many cars off the roads in the future due to increased density in a transit-oriented development? What are the commuting patterns of people that work in Tyson's, e.g., where are they commuting from? I know for me, personally, here in north Old Town, I'd be unlikely to take transit to Tyson's to shop if it involved a 45 minute minimum commute that involved a busride/walk, catching at least one metro connection in Arlington (and maybe another at WFC), and then a connector in Tyson's. But in 20 years, maybe there would be a light rail line down Four Mile Run to Seven Corners, and another line from there out to Tyson's.

I'm not super interested in just satisfying some landowner's in Tyson's. I'd rather see a wholesale rethinking and reimagining of what commuting patterns and land use patterns in NoVa might look like, and then building a transit system to effect such changes.

But thanks for your detailed response. I appreciate the facts and info.

"We have always said that we want the vertical alignment of the currently proposed plan to be put underground and that's it.  We don't advocate bypassing Tyson's, nor do we think it's a good idea to look at options that run counter to good transit policy in this particular application (such as BRT, monorails, transporters, light rail, etc.).  These other options simply confuse the debate and do not adequately supply the public's demand for efficient and well suited public transportation."

how do those other options run counter to good transit policy exactly when they are much cheaper and more efficient

The last sentence is especially pompous        

www.apta.org

There is tons of great information on the various modes and the pro's and con's of each.    

Does he not support a tunnel through Tysons?

Or maybe he just supports the corporate interests (such as Bechtel and their associates ... SAIC maybe? ...) that will make more money from the El.

Where is Gerry?  Even if doesn't support the tunnel, why wouldn't he be out in front of these passionate rail supporters explaining his position and why it is the best solution?  

He made it to the Tunnel rally a year and half ago and had a "strong preference" for the tunnel.  

...yet another missed opportunity to get it right.  

But not by much.  Hopefully we'll be seeing more of Charlie Hall in the future.  In fact, there may be an opening for Fx County Supervisor soon (I hope not, but it's possible).

Maybe Connolly didn't come for the same reason Jim Moran didn't attend.

Maybe they didn't want to raise false hopes or pander to the voters.

They may support a tunnel, but they know the option is dead.

all he cares about is his big corporate contributors. He wants the cash.

Your statement that he didn't want to "pander to voters" is very revealing. He really doesn't want to be bothered with average folks. Just show him the money. That's been his MO in Fairfax County as the worst case of a Corporate Democrat.

You know I can't stand Connolly but Petersen is even worse.  That guy says differnt things to different audiences all the time.

but I appreciate you saying so.  

I wanted to personally thank everyone that attended our Fundraiser this evening.  Without financial support for TysonsTunenl.org a horendous aerial structure through Tysons Corner will be built.  This evening we had at least 129 donars   I wanted to personally thank everyone that attended our Fundraiser this evening.  Without financial support for TysonsTunnel.org a horrendous aerial structure through Tysons Corner will be built.  This evening we had at least 129 donors and raised thousands of dollars.  To our Donors and to our Elected Officials and those running for elected office I sincerely thank you on behalf of all of us.  

Senator Chap Petersen and Supervisor John Foust and embrace one of the true qualities of leadership which is taking a position on something because it's the right thing to do despite the opposition.  

Without their willingness to stand up and proclaim the practical truth on behalf of their constituents, we would have been cooked long ago.  I also want to thank Doug  and Leslie (Both running for the 11th District Congressional Seat as Democrats) for attending and speaking.  Both have made the Tunnel for Tyson's a key plank in their platforms exhibiting their willingness to lead as well.

Scott Monett
President
TysonsTunnel.org    

Excuse the repeats... cut and paste error.  

He is acting like a typical politician and trying to please everyone

He has taken every single position as I will document

This link provides the best summary

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/ne...

State Sen. Chap Petersen (D-Vienna) also sent a letter to the FTA asking for a timeout, but directly contradicted himself a week later by signing Homer's letter asking for the project to be approved before Feb. 1.

"I'm not taking my letter back, I'm trying to walk a fine line," Petersen said Monday, adding that before the meeting with Homer he did not have all the information.

"I don't want to see the whole project disappear. ... I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater," Petersen said. "To prevent that, I'll take a little bit of embarrassment."

Additionally in early April at a community forum Petersen said he was totally against rail and thought it was a bad idea from the start.  He said he would prefer BRT instead.  (This was of course before the resurecction announcement when almost everyone thought the project was dead.)

So Petersen has taken every single position on this issue.  I'm not even sure he knows what he actually believes.