"Obama wins Wisconsin, waiting on Hawaii" overflow thread

By: Rob
Published On: 2/20/2008 12:39:17 AM

Lots to talk about as we head into tomorrow.  As of right now, Obama has extended his lead over Clinton to 17 points with 80% reporting.  And with huge Obama cities like Milwaukee and Madison still with about 20% left to report, that lead could hit the 20% mark.  

Here's the AP's striking characterization of Clinton's campaign post-Wisconsin:

Barack Obama cruised past a fading Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Wisconsin primary Tuesday night, gaining the upper hand in a Democratic presidential race for the ages.

So, for you night owls staying up to see Hawaii's results (1 a.m. our time at the earliest) or to see Obama lead grow in Wisconsin, here's a place to chat.  


Comments



Should Hillary Drop Out? (phillip123 - 2/20/2008 12:48:50 AM)
61% of America seems to think so.  You can put in your two cents here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23...



I've been saying this for a while now (vadem2008 - 2/20/2008 12:52:34 AM)
It is time for Hillary to concede for the sake of the democratic party- Let Obama have the time to put together his campaign for the general election; especially monetarily.  


Hillary Should Drop Out (The Grey Havens - 2/20/2008 1:34:37 AM)
Compare the results from Wisconsin:

WI 91%
McCain 55%
Huckabee 37%

Margin:  18%

That's John McCain, the presumptive nominee, the guy who has been endorsed by essentially every important Republican.  John McCain, in his race, which is essentially a done deal, wins Wisconsin by 18%.

WI 91%
Obama 58%
Clinton 41%

Margin:  17%

And then there's Barack Obama, locked in a life or death battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic party. Barack Obama in his race, which will supposedly go all the way to the convention, wins Wisconsin by 17%.

Meanwhile, Republicans are SCREAMING for McCain's chief rival, Mike Huckabee to drop out.  Will Democrats start calling for Hillary's exit?



We need to hit 12 delegates or so out of Wisconsin (DanG - 2/20/2008 12:50:55 AM)
That we we can hope for +8 out of Hawaii (which would be a total ass kickin).  Still, I'm predicting we'll get +16-17 out of the night.  


Thanks for the thread Lowell (sndeak - 2/20/2008 12:51:41 AM)
I was thinking about posting a diary this weekend about the ground game in Wisconsin but thought better of it as I didn't want to let the 'strategery' out.

It is safe to say that the talking heads in the MSM are missing something huge that happened this weekend in Wisconsin. The viral manner of the out of state phonebanking and the surge of volunteers busting thier asses this weekend.

BTW heard earlier that Obama campaign underestimated their fundraising in Feb. It was actually 36 million not 32 million raised.



Oops ...January, not February (sndeak - 2/20/2008 12:52:48 AM)


well played sndeak (Chris Guy - 2/20/2008 12:57:25 AM)
I prefer to let the results do the talking myself. :)


Nite owl time! (bpkybe - 2/20/2008 1:01:39 AM)
Oh, the life of a college student...


I remember . . . (JPTERP - 2/20/2008 1:06:10 AM)
Super Tuesday -- Stephanopolous talked about how 150 pledged delegates was the break-away point for a candidate.  At this stage we're two-thirds of the way through the race and it looks like Obama might break the 160 pledged delegate threshold.

I don't begrudge the Clinton team for sticking it out through Ohio and Texas -- I just hope they run a clean campaign that stops feeding the GOP lines of attack for November.  If Clinton can make a positive case and close the gap, so be it.  That window is exceedingly narrow at this stage -- especially after 9 contests where the victory margins have been close to the 20% point range.  



What's with the Washington Results (Rebecca - 2/20/2008 1:11:28 AM)
I saw results from Washington on the TV screen tonight as well. I thought that primary was last week. What's going on?


popularity contest (DanG - 2/20/2008 1:14:03 AM)
There are no delegates awarded for this primary.


Washington state . . . (JPTERP - 2/20/2008 1:19:44 AM)
has both a caucus AND a primary.  The caucus results are the only ones that count in terms of pledged delegates.

I'm not really sure why they do both.  



Time for Hillary to drop out, or suspend her campaign (humanfont - 2/20/2008 1:40:19 AM)
She can run again in 4 years if Obama loses, or maybe pickup nomination at the convention this summer if Obama craters.  


Wisconsin is NOT (Chris Guy - 2/20/2008 1:44:40 AM)
a caucus state, an "unwinnable" red state, or a "Jesse Jackson" state. I can't WAIT to hear the excuses...


Too much cheese there... (Lowell - 2/20/2008 7:00:28 AM)
or it was too cold or too many damn students or....something.


All Republicans agree (DanG - 2/20/2008 1:48:52 AM)
John McCain's strength: he's a legitimate war hero, and though he's fighting to prove he's a conservative, the media still insists on calling him a centrist, which will aid him amongst independents and moderates.

Do we have any centrist war hero Democrats out there to counter John McCain?  We could certainly use somebody like that on Obama's ticket...



I predict that John McCain will be the next President of the U.S. (MJW - 2/20/2008 3:46:09 AM)
Where are all those white male independent votes going to go? I think that the white independent males voted for Obama as a lesser of two evils (a black or a woman and the woman lost). So in the fall here is John McCain, a centrist and a white male.

I thought that the Doug Wilder effect would take place in the primaries. I predict it will be in the fall.  No one will tell a pollster he will vote against an African American. Since there is a white male available and he is centrist, he will get the vote. Add to that a white male with military experience and if Osama bin Laden and company cause more problems.

Even this year, I think white southern males have the best chance to win. If John Edwards or Jim Webb were the candidate were wouldn't have to worry.

And Vice Presidential candidates don't mean a thing.

MJW



Correction (MJW - 2/20/2008 4:04:39 AM)
we wouldn't have to worry.


I voted for McCain . . . (JPTERP - 2/20/2008 4:12:43 AM)
in 2000.  I liked his authenticity and thought he would make a fine president.  Ain't gonna happen in 2008.

Not all of those independents who have been breaking strongly for Obama -- and the handful of highly educated Republicans will necessarily stick around in November, but I suspect most of them probably will.

Not many people in this country are going to warm up to a presidential candidate who says he doesn't understand economic policy -- his flip-flops on Bush's rich person tax cut would seem to suggest that is true.  Most folks these days also aren't itching for a 100 year war in Iraq -- especially not at a cost of $8 billion a month.

You thought the Wilder effect was going to kick in, but it only has on the margins.  The Wilder-Bradley effect was in place 20 years ago.  A lot has changed since then, even if there are still some ignorants who think tax-cuts for the rich are good economic policy and 100 year wars in a sandpit are in America's long-term interests.  As the past 8 years have shown there are always idiots who make stupid choices against their interests in the voting booth.



McCain out of touch on defense (Hugo Estrada - 2/20/2008 8:13:06 AM)
And let's not forget that McCain seems out of touch on his strongest topic: defense.

Of all people, McCain should know that our military is overextended and that we don't have the money to engage in Iraq.

Yet he is promising a 100 year war and another 2 or 3 wars on top of that.

This is just crazy. Anyone who has been casually following the plight of the military knows that it has barely enough resources to do its job in Iraq. And the wars are destroying our immediate and long term future, while handing the economic keys to the kingdom to the Chinese.



It's time to start honoring Hillary (The Grey Havens - 2/20/2008 2:54:07 AM)

Tonight, we are witnessing what is very likely the grand flameout of the Clinton Campaign, but while I celebrate Barack Obama's stunning victory, I feel a little sorry for Hillary Clinton and very angry at the people employed by her campaign.

Hillary is a brilliant woman, a solid senator and a good politician. And there is no doubt that she was ill served by her campaign, particularly by Mark Penn. In a year dominated by big questions like war, peace, national and economic security and climate change, Penn made her small. By trying to "micro-target" the American people, he turned her into the ultimate bureaucrat. And as people sought a leader, she became a post office clerk. What's worse is that as they Saw the nomination slipping away, they became desperate a spiteful. Ultimately, it speaks to her character that she allowed these things to happen.

People want national health, but they know, WE know, that a 12-point plan on a piece of paper is not leadership. Her career is not over and she will hold her senate for as long as she wants it. She will be a great Finance Committee Chair or even Majority Leader. But hopefully she has learned that the American people will never follow her. After all, it was her husband who urged us "Don't stop thinking about tomorrow".



Will Blackwater and Countrywide learn (phillip123 - 2/20/2008 3:39:15 AM)
I think you are mostly correct.  Hillary is a bright person and far better than many Republicans however I think she has poor judgment.  Two facts made it impossible for me to consider Hillary this cycle, it took me some time to decide between Obama and Edwards.  First she voted for and supported the war in Iraq.  Many people just lump her in with all the other dems who voted for the war.  However, she supported the war for a long time and made many a speech in support of the war.  Second she hired Mark Penn.  Besides "micro-targets", which I hate, his company aka he, represents Blackwater and Countrywide two of the most unethical corporations going.  She didn't demand that he drop them in order to represent her.  How could democrats possibly believe they were going to get a change when the same person giving her advice was also giving advice to Blackwater?  So will Blackwater and Countrywide learn what a tool Mark Penn is and fire him?