Gun Show Loophole Debate CONTINUES!

By: LAS
Published On: 1/22/2008 6:22:38 PM

Yesterday, on the day we honor Martin Luther King, jr, hundreds of college students from Va Tech, UVA, Northern Virginia, and the Hampton Roads/Norfolk area descended upon Richmond. Some had boarded their buses as early as 3:30 a.m. They had come to Richmond to ask our State Senate to honor the recommendations made by the bi-partisan Va Tech review panel and CLOSE THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.

The students were joined by advocates from all over the state, and by friends, family members and parents who lost a son or daughter on that terrible day at Virginia Tech.

Senator Henry Marsh, chair of the Courts of Justice Committee, introduced Senate Bill 109--which requires background checks for ALL gun sales at Virginia gun shows. He was joined by John Marshall, our Secretary of Public Safety, law enforcement officials from Richmond, Norfolk and Chesterfield county as well as Colonel Massengill, the former Superintendent of our state police and the chair of the Va Tech Review panel.  Governor Kaine fully supports the bill and has worked very hard to get it passed.

"This is a public safety issue" said Secretary Marshall. It is estimated that 22-35% of all gun sales at gun shows were bought through unlicensed sellers. These are people who have tables at gun shows and freely advertise that "no background check" is required to buy a gun from them.  
The conference room was full to capacity. Students and others filled the back of the room and up the aisles. I would estimate that the pro-responsible gun ownership group beat the other side 3 - 1.  They stood there for hours in a cramped and stuffy room, waiting for the hearing to begin.

The testimony was extremely compelling. We heard from law enforcement and other experts, and we also heard from the parents of victims from Va Tech. Senator Cuccinelli, who represents the district where one of the victims lived--studiously kept his head down while her father testified. He would not even look this man in the eye. Senator Edwards, a pro-gun democrat--wore Va Tech colors to show solidarity with the students and family members, but would not promise to vote YES. Senator Creigh Deeds, another pro-gun democrat, asked many questions of both sides and acknowledged that he had a very difficult decision to make.

"There's nothing we can do to make up for your terrible loss. There's nothing we can do to make you feel better," is something the Va Tech parents hear over and over again, from gun-rights activists and Senators on both sides of the aisle.

"They're wrong about that," said Kathy Read, stepmother to Mary Read, who was killed at Virginia Tech. 'Voting for this bill would make me feel better," she told the Senators she met with yesterday. "I would know that we had done something for Mary. I would feel better that something good had come out of our loss."

Obviously, this is an issue that engenders a lot of passion and controversy on both sides. But no matter how you may feel about it, I think we can agree that this bill deserves to be heard. It must be heard. Senate Bill 109 needs to go to the floor for full debate so ALL Virginians can have a say in how it is decided.

There are seven senators from the committee who have not yet publicly declared how they will vote. But whether they--finally--vote yes or no, I urge them to first send SB 109 to the Senate floor.

I hope people reading this will do the same. Please call the Senators below and tell them to vote YES on SB109. The vote is scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday, January 23rd at 2 p.m. so please, call soon!

Sen. Creigh Deeds (804) 698-7525 district25@sov.state.va.us

Sen. John Edwards (804) 698-7521 district21@sov.state.va.us

Sen. William Reynolds (804) 698-7520 district20@sov.state.va.us

Sen. Thomas Norment (804) 698-7503 district03@sov.state.va.us

Sen. Frederick Quayle (804) 698-7513 district13@sov.state.va.us

Sen. Kenneth Stolle (804) 698-7508 district08@sov.state.va.us

Sen. Ken Cuccinelli (804) 698-7537 district37@sov.state.va.us


Comments



Thanks so much for this post (afausser - 1/22/2008 7:06:39 PM)
I was there with some of the Virginia Tech Young Dems and it was great. However, there were some big disappointments. You notice that for some of the vote yes discussion time, Sen. Cuccinelli wasn't even in the room? He said at one point he could be persuaded--I don't know how he expects that to happen if he isn't even listening.

Creigh seemed to be looking for a way to vote no. There are really no excuses on this one. If he does vote no, we will know for sure he cares more about his NRA rating than looking at each bill on a case by case basis to see what is right.

And at the vigil--there was one of the pro-gun guys singing "We shall overcome." On Martin Luther King day. Come on guys, overcome? Really?

I have video of some of the speeches at the rally. Hopefully they will be up on youtube soon.



Looking forward to seeing it! (LAS - 1/23/2008 12:30:08 AM)
Those Va Tech students were incredible. It really makes you worry less about the future of this country when you meet young people like that. God bless them.


this is what is up so far. you tube made it a bit grainy (afausser - 1/23/2008 1:01:36 AM)
http://www.youtube.com/v/P9kxc...


Keep up the short sightedness. (WillieStark - 1/22/2008 7:19:46 PM)
I predict that if Dems don't let this go it will pretty much eliminate any chance of winning the governorship next year.

I am very ashamed of those who are exploiting the deaths of those students who were killed on an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened.

This is yet another way that Dems are becoming professional victims.

Gov. Kaine is also disappointing me in breaking his promise of NO NEW GUN LAWS. PERIOD.



So are you saying that the families are exploiting their children's deaths? (afausser - 1/22/2008 7:25:10 PM)
It was noted by many on the pro-control side that the loophole isn't what caused the shooting at Tech, but honestly what is the harm in making it a little more difficult to get a gun? It's a little hassle that could very well save lives, and I really don't understand what gun owners are so afraid of. Don't extend this particular case to people who want guns entirely banned. Look at it for what it is.


I don't have a problem with background checks. (WillieStark - 1/22/2008 7:59:43 PM)
But this is the wrong way to go about it. We need to keep tragedies from getting into the discussion. The reason why we need background checks is so people like Cho can't easily get a gun. Making a new law that will quite frankly do nothing to prevent this type of thing is not the answer.

But if you tell me that I have to have a background check to buy a new shotgun from my cousin who has sold guns at a gunshow before as an individual then we have a problem. I know a lot of people who will have a problem with it. Reasonable people who would normally get in line with us when we want to approach public safety in a common sense way. The injection of such emotionally charged subject matter is a mistake and will only serve to provide fodder to the GOP in their efforts to separate independents from us.

As far as making it harder to get a gun. It should be EASY for law abiding people to get a gun. I am sick and tired of liberals ( and I am one) not supporting all of the Bill of Rights. The 2nd Amendment is very clear. And don't give me any BS about it being outdated either and applying to collective groups. The Bill of Rights was written to protect the rights of individuals and that makes it quite clear that it applies to individuals.

I think we need to work on making sure that all persons with mental problems that make gun ownership by them unwise to be entered into the background check system. We don't go about it by going after individuals who sell guns as a hobby.



If it works, that is all I care about (afausser - 1/22/2008 8:13:36 PM)
I understand that it would really be a hassle to buy from someone you know...so the question is what can we do legislatively to address all sides of this the right way? If you allow for some people to buy guns without a background check then any individual seller could theoretically get around it if they claimed they knew the person buying it.

So what options do we have to actually do something about people getting guns that shouldn't? What about all the crime guns being purchased in VA that go to NY and DC? If we are going to find a way to make it easier for law abiding citizens to get guns, we also need to make it tougher for potential criminals to get them as well. And that is a tough line to try to draw.



What I don't understand is why Willie's cousin (LAS - 1/23/2008 12:14:24 AM)
can't just sell him the gun at his house--why do they need to do it at a gun show? This bill would not prohibit friends and family from selling guns to each other--it would prohibit sellers from selling to strangers at a gun show without a background check.

Selling guns at a gun show is not a hobby; it is a business. If your cousin wants to sell guns at a gun show, why can't he just become a licensed dealer?

Dude, a background check takes 3 5 minutes, tops. Just how easy does it have to be for a lawabiding individual to get a gun? We want to make it harder for criminals and the mentally ill to get their hands on a gun--background checks that cause very little inconvenience to law-abiding citizens can be a deterent to those who are not.  

Willie, I really don't understand your objection. You say you don't have a problem with background checks, but you obviously do. You say that requiring background checks at gun shows violate your 2nd Amendment rights, but other background checks don't? Where's the consistency there?

Finally, is there not something about equal protection under the law? How can it be fair for one person to have to go through a background check during a commercial  transaction, when the other person doesn't? How can it be fair for one businessman to have to become a licensed dealer while other businessman don't?  



Willie, as I said before (LAS - 1/22/2008 7:26:51 PM)
why don't you take your complaints to the Va Tech parents who were there? You have no idea what you are talking about.

And this is NOT a new gun law, btw. It's simply fixing a loophole in an existing law. Just as when Governor Kaine--by executive order--fixed the loophole that allowed a mentally ill person such as Cho to purchase two guns--he was amending an existing law.

Tell me, is it that you don't approve of background checks, period? Because most of us, on both sides of the aisle, believe that everyone should go through a background check before purchasing a gun. Why would you oppose such a law?    



do not presume that I don't know what I am talking about. (WillieStark - 1/22/2008 7:48:28 PM)
I LIVED in Blacksburg and Radford for two years. I was 6 miles from the VT campus when it happened. I knew one of the professors who was killed and met two more of them from time to time. So don't you dare to presume to lecture me about the VT tragedy. You owe me an apology for that comment.

Also, you are quite silly in these contradictory statements. First you tell me it isn't a new law. (you should ask a lawyer about that by the way) and then you proceed to ask me how I could oppose such a law. IT IS A NEW GUN LAW. Currently it is not illegal for individuals to sell guns without doing a background check. What is being proposed is a new law. Gov. Kaine promised not to do that. He is breaking that promise.

I am a huge fan of Gov. Kaine but I am also man enough to say when I think he is wrong. This is such a case.

You are WRONG. Not my opinion, it is a fact.



No, you were wrong (LAS - 1/23/2008 12:00:37 AM)
to imply that people who support closing the gun show loophole are exploiting this tragedy or exploting the parents of the Va Tech victims. Why don't you ask the parents of Mary Read about that? Why don't you ask the family of the professor you say you knew? Do they agree with you, I wonder?



Lacking compassion and common decency (Terry - 1/22/2008 9:21:53 PM)
What reasonable and rational person can really say that spending three to five minutes on an instant background check in any way stops law abiding citizens from purchasing a gun? And what reasonable and rational person can likewise say that waiting this few minutes to make a purchase is such an inconvenience that we should take the chance that another person with mental illness, a criminal, or a terrorist will purchase a gun and take innocent life as Cho did on April 16. And, please tell me, what person with even the slightest sense of compassion and decency would even think to tell parents who lost a child at Virginia Tech that a bill that might prevent a similar tragedy should not in the very least be heard before the full Virginia Senate?

I urge all of the Senators on the Courts of Justice Committee to take the advice of Governor Kaine. Let Democracy have its day in the hallowed ground where our forefathers like Thomas Jefferson first envisioned it. What would Thomas Jefferson do? I think we all know that he would let Democracy play out. Let the full Senate vote on this bill. In contrast to what Willie says, I think any Democrat on the Committee who votes against this bill will find it hard to face the voters in Northern Virginia and other parts of the state -- particulary Senator Deeds who wants to run for Governor. He can rest assured that a "no" vote tomorrow will bear a great deal of trouble for his statewide candidacy.

And please Willie, put your false piety aside. Is their a heart under all of that or are you the Grinch with no heart? Do not presume to tell people who have lost a child that they are "exploiting the deaths of those students." You have no moral right to do so.



Yes! Send the bill to the floor! (LAS - 1/23/2008 12:40:07 AM)
Let all the Senators who represent ALL of Virginia vote on it! That's the only decent and democratic thing to do!  


What's the big deal? (elevandoski - 1/22/2008 9:43:58 PM)
If you want to buy a gun from your cousin minus a background check, just do it over the kitchen table at your cousin's house.  But if you want to buy a gun from your cousin who has set a table at a gunshow, you have to get a background check.  Don't like the hassle, then buy it outside the gun show.  But all sellers at gun shows, licensed or not, do instant background checks.  Better safe than sorry.


FYI (elevandoski - 1/22/2008 9:53:26 PM)

Robyn Anderson (age 18), the girlfriend of one of the Columbine shooters, purchased two shotguns and a 9mm rifle which the shooters used in the Columbine murders from a gun show.  She later admitted that a background check might have scared her out of buying the guns.  "I wish a law requiring background checks had been in effect at the time... I wish it had been more difficult. I wouldn't have helped [Harris and Klebold] buy the guns if I had faced a background check."


Good point (LAS - 1/23/2008 12:20:45 AM)
More than 70% of the citizens of Colorado voted to close the gun show loophole after that tragedy--the legislature was too bound to the NRA to do so.

Colorado is one of the states with the most gun shows--business has not been affected by closing this loophole. As a matter of fact, I believe 7 of the top 10 states for gun shows have closed this loophole--and yet they still have lots of guns shows, filled with lots of law-abiding, gun-buying citizens.

 



Virginian-Pilot: "Logic Favors Gun-Show Checks (elevandoski - 1/23/2008 9:02:23 AM)
There's not too much I can add to the perfect lead editorial in today's Virginian-Pilot.  "Extending instant background checks to sales at gun shows injures no one." "The Second Amendment is not diminished by a five-minute wait for a background check." "They [private sellers] set up their tables next to the licensed dealers, and no good reason exists for treating them differently." "The Senate has a chance to amplify the good sense and popular will of Virginians by putting public safety ahead of politics."