James,
As a local chair, I have avoided posting up to this point, but I am completely exasperated with your spin. I find it inappropriate that you continue to attack Delegate Moran. You support Senator Deeds, we get it. Those of us who have worked with the party and on campaigns like and respect BOTH of these men.  If you would like to focus your blogging endeavors on Senator Deeds campaign, may I suggest you start another blog where readers can self select. We will have ample opportunities to evaluate ALL gubernatorial candidates before that primary.

This is the day of the Iowa caucus, which hopefully will remind everyone that we have a presidential primary, congressional caucus, senate caucus, local elections, congressional elections, a presidential election and two years before Deeds or Moran, or anyone else will be on the ballot statewide in Virginia.

Get your priorities straight, help unify the party and please stop attempting to tear down other Democrats.

Amy LaMarca
Chair, Fredericksburg Democratic Committee

I am not going to compare the relative merits of these two men at THIS time, because:
1) Only one of them is a declared candidate for this office. Del Moran has stated repeatedly that he will not announce his intentions until he completes the 2008 session. I respect that.
2) We, as Democrats, have much more immediate concerns other than who is going to run for Governor in 2009. We have to work hard to get a presidential nominee, hopefully a complete set of congressional candidates, elect all of them plus Mark Warner, and regain the White House ALL IN 2008. All of you who carrying water for Senator Deeds right now are bringing divisiveness where we need unity. If you think Senator Deeds is the right man for the job, give him money now (he desperately needs it) and publicly campaign for him after November.

And I'm pretty shocked at your carpetbagger tactics- that's awfully close to Delegate Howell's "real Virginians" comments.  If the RPV brings that, so be it. I don't need to hear it from other Democrats.

In 2007- Creigh raised $200,000 with his Senate Account and raised another $450,000 with his Leadership PAC... Thats on top of the $3.5 million he raised in 05 when he ran for AG.

Creigh may be alot of things- but a poor fundraiser is not one of them.

Jack, I don't know you, so I will assume your comments come from a strong desire to see Creigh Deeds as governor. Fair enough. I also have no dog in this hunt -- 2009 is a long ways away; at the appropriate point, I will decide whether I like the philosophies and agenda of the candidates and make a decision for the primary (which is 18 months away).

However, when you say the following:

But I have yet to hear a response from any of his supporters explaining how exactly a stereotypical NoVa liberal with a Massachusetts carpetbagger accent is going to win in the general election outside of NoVa. Moran's supporters usually just seem to cringe and slink away.

you don't sound like someone worth taking seriously on this site. This is the worst type of meritless nonsense, impossible to intellectually rebut. This is a site dedicated to advancing progressive values, hand-in-hand with the Democratic party. Both Creigh and Brian are big parts of the leadership infrastructure of that party. A primary is about fleshing out differences and ideas and ways forward, and then rallying and inspiring enough support to gain the party nomination.

Mindlessly repeating the worst of the right-wing crap used to emasculate and denigrate "LIBERALS" helps no one.

I may yet support Creigh Deeds in 2009; I am less inclined to do so when I see such types of comments from his supporters.

Ron1,

You seem to be suggesting that it's not appropriate to openly question whether a candidate in a primary has a good chance of winning in the general election. A big part of what we do in a primary is weigh whether or not a candidate can win in the general. This is why Dennis Kuchinich had incredibly low support in 2004 despite being actually more in tune with the party base on the biggest issue of the time (Iraq, and he was right). It's a fair thing for intelligent political junkies to discuss.

I'm not "mindless repeating" anything. I'm being honest about how the enemy would attack Brian Moran if he became the nominee and I want to hear what the plan is for countering it.  Is it fair to judge someone based on his accent? No. But it's a reality that would be injected into the general election, just as Jerry Kilgore's 'unfortunate' manner of speaking hurt him. Too bad for the GOP that they didn't have a frank discussion among themselves about the matter before giving him the nomination, eh?

I've presented the outline of how I would, if I were the chief strategist for a GOP nominee, attack and define Brian Moran as an outsider. This is a useful exercise.

Look; I'll do you a favor and take a stab at it.

'Brian Moran has worked diligently over the last few years to establish a voting record that is in line with the moderate political values of Virginians from all parts of the Commonwealth.  Whether it's his support for our tradition of hunting, his defense of family values or his leadership in passing fiscally responsible budgets in Richmond, Brian Moran has proven that he is a political moderate in the mold of Mark Warner and Tim Kaine.'

Now I don't actually believe much of that and I could poke enough holes in it to make swiss cheese. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. This is the game that is played in campaign politics. If Moran's campaign and supporters can't play that game then they are in big trouble.

people stay quiet because I think they're kind of embarrassed for you.  Here's a shorter you on the topic of Brian Moran:

"He talks funny!"

Repeat that, ad nauseum.  That's it.  There's nothing more to it, and you've demonstrated that over and over.  And you think anyone with a substantive interest is going to engage that?  At this point?  From a Democrat?  Please.

You do realize you just described Mark Warner right?

I'll travel back to 2001 and tell him not to bother.

Bwahahahaha!

Time travel is inherently funny.

This "Boston accent" thing has got to be one of the most ridiculous lines of "attack" I've ever heard in politics.

Where has the bulk of Democratic votes come from in most recent years?  NOVA. That must be factored in to the equation.  NOVA has made it possible for Kaine and Webb to win-particularly Webb.  Both men have some appeal and supporters outside their territory, but look to the area where their biggest strengths lie--where there are more Democrats that the rest of the state

I'm not picking a candidate yet.  I have worked with them both and like them both.  It's going to be hard to make a choice.  Each one has made extraordinary efforts to visit events, go to meetings, meet and greet with Democrats all over the place.  Sure, they're running for office, but by doing their road trips, they have made friends and supporters.  

I'd prefer a little less of the cheerleading this early on.  Agree with Amy, that we do have another election to concentrate on and work for right now.  This group was jumping to the presidential back before the mid-terms were well under way.  Always looking down the road will cause us to take our eye off the current ball.  There's going to be plenty of time to work on  2009 and spend time speculating on that.

I seem to remember calling you to task several times after Deeds announced his candidacy on your one-note orchestral rendition of "rural Virginia rednecks are so dumb they'll never elect a yankee no matter what his qualifications" mantra.  

Every time you mention Deeds versus Moran you lead off with the "Brian's Boston accent" attack and pretty much leave it at that.  Find something substantive to talk about ... please.  And yes, we all understand that you're saying that GOP operatives will keep talking about Brian as the "Ted Kennedy doppelganger", but I have to say that I haven't heard that term from anyone yet but alleged Democratic operatives such as yourself.  YOU say it all the time.  Why don't we give it a rest, now?  We all get it.  

And we think it's ridiculous.  Obviously, Republican operatives are going to attack the Democratic nominee any way they can. And vice versa.  What else is new, it's politics! :)  Seriously, if the worst attack they can come up with against Brian Moran is that he has a - GASP!!! - slight accent, they're toast.  Also, they can try to smear northern Virginia,  you can see how far that got George Allen (the "real Virginia").  Go for it, Republican operative dudes!

We get it James. Try to be a little more objective with front-page posts.

If I were Moran and I was definitely going to run, I would have done the same thing and stepped up the announcement. Creigh's campaign has come together fast and I know a lot of people around here (Albemarle) are writing checks for him. There are all sorts of fundraisers on the calender and I seem to get something in the mail with the campaign graphic on it at least once a week. Combine that with Creigh's enormous goodwill after coming within 300 some votes of winning state-wide office last time around and this is a very tough candidate to take on. The longer Moran waits, the stronger Creigh will be.

Personally, I'd like to actually win the election in '09. So I'm supporting Creigh. 2 words about Moran: Massachusetts accent. Our eventual opponent will paint him as Ted Kennedy or John Kerry come again and he'd get his butt handed to him everywhere except his home turf in NoVa.

The smart move on Moran's part would be to run for AG, which is a nomination that he could get without much of a fight if he declared right now.

Please explain why the Massachusetts accent plays better in an AG race than a Governor's race.  Thank You.

I can't imagine a good answer to it, either.  Bashing someone for his "accent," isn't that what people said was being done to Jerry Kilgore in 2005?  (personally, I didn't give a rat's you-know-what about Kilgore's accent, what I cared about was his ducking debates and his lame ideas for Virginia)

It doesn't. I just said that he could get the nomination was all.

However, if Creigh does well then his coattails might mean something. The public hears less of a down-ticket candidate's voice than then they do of a top-ticket candidate's voice. That might count for something.

We could possibly get away with slipping Brian in as AG. I just think that putting him at the top of the ticket would trash our brand.

But Jack, Creigh was not outspent in 2005 (McDonnell had a primary, Creigh did not, when you take out primary expenses, the spending was very close).  What makes you think he does better in a rematch instead of worse?  It's a serious question.

When a candidate loses by a hundredreth of a percent (or whatever it came down to), whether he can do better next time is all but irrelevant.

But statewide McDonnell will have had a few years as a sitting elected official who is on the news a lot.  Here in Northern Virginia if you polled name ID today, I bet McDonnell is three times Creigh.  I'm not saying this is fair- but it is reality that it will be tougher for Creigh to win a few points from McDonnell 05 voters than vice versa.

Kilgore's run for governor was hurt by his having too "country" an accent, so it cuts both ways.

I've never met Brian in person, so I can't say how strong or distinctive his accent is.

He talked about 2004 and 2005.  His four sounds like Boston, his five sounds like my grandmother from Roanoke.  No one in the crowd seemed to care about the accent.  

Where is this talking point coming from?

for 2009, because I doubt any serious Democrats care about piddling accents.

It doesn't matter. Everyone knew he was running anyway.

both running for governor has been about the worst kept secret ever in Virginia history.  Now we know for sure, that's all. Anyway, it's time to get back to 2008 as far as I'm concerned.

The following is from Brian Moran's chief of staff, Jesse Ferguson.  My read is that Brian obviously intends to run for Governor, as we've all know for a long time.  However, he will not be announcing until after the General Assembly session.  That seems a bit complicated, but then again, this is politics...

As you may have already heard, today Brian created a new political action committee - Virginian's for Brian Moran - to help him explore a run for Governor in 2009. He will not be making any formal announcement until after the General Assembly session but this committee will allow him to organize and prepare for a campaign. Brian's excited that former Warner Political Director, Mame Reiley, will be joining staff as Director of the new PAC and former Warner and Webb campaign manager, Steve Jarding, will join as General Consultant.

Brian's received encouragement from all across the Commonwealth and is taking the next steps to prepare for a statewide campaign.

You can read the full story from the Associated Press below.

For now, Brian will focus on helping Governor Kaine be successful with critical issues like his healthcare reform and Early Childhood education during the upcoming session of the General Assembly.

You know, this isn't about Creigh and it isn't about Brian Moran, it's about the 12th commandment:  Dems don't use RW talking points to attack Dems.

Do you really need to do Opp research against Brian Moran?

Seriously?  I mean you need to go off on Brian Moran?

This makes no sense.

Either of these guys are going to have a tough time time against the Republicans statewide, and putting stuff like this out there just doesn't help.  You want maybe another Gilmore administration?  How about Bob Marshall, McDonnell, or Bolling, or vomit George Allen's undead mass coming back from the political graveyard.

This isn't even a useful attack. It's not substantive.  If there's a policy dispute or a real betrayal of principle, that's worth commenting on.  I mean look at the grief we give Connolly over the Tyson Tunnel, or our principled attacks on Linda Smyth and Johnny Jannou, not to mention Harris Miller.  

Those are examples of solid policy differences.  We should hold our electeds responsible for their actions, but this is just a spurious attach that calls into question the character of one of the strongest and most recognized Democrats we have for the next election.

You do good work, James Martin, but this wasn't really needed.

I do like Jack's suggestion, in that I'd like to have VA Dems have a deeper bench for statewide races.  Creigh 2009 and Moran 2013 sounds great to me, but that's now how they've decided to play it.  My ideal would have been to have Warner for Governor, Moran for Lt. Gov, and Creigh for AG (or vice versa), but having Warner on the 2008 ballot and as Virginia's next (jr) Senator, is more than a fair trade-off.

We never wanted Deeds v. Moran, but it looks like we've got it.  At least VA Dems have two truly excellent leaders to choose from in 2009.  

I love it!

James, we've said before: it's too damn early to be focusing on this and making jabs at people.  I like Brian and Creigh.

I'll be basing my decision on who to support on several factors, but the most important of these factors will be who contributes most to unifying the party and winning the 2008 elections (victory equals:  I want to carry Virginia for the presidential candidate, win Mark Warner's Senate race, and take away at least one House seat this year).

I want to see a demonstration of unity and I'm going to hold anyone who disrupts Democratic unity in 2008 responsible for their actions.

Something to consider James:  I know you are passionate in your support of Creigh, but ask yourself whether you are helping or hurting him by starting some kind of destructive, divisive quarrel during the 2008 elections?

Do Creigh a big favor and tone down your rhetoric.  By all means praise Creigh and call attention to his good points and actions, but if I were you I would just stop talking about Brian Moran altogether, because you don't seem to be able to resist the temptation to be negative and divisive.  

Sadly, there are people out there who are going to hold Creigh responsible for your actions.

Food for thought.

Creigh and Brian should both be very, very cautious about going negative until two weeks after election day 2008, which if I read my calendar right is November 4, 2008.

Let's unify, win our victory in 2008, celebrate our victory for a couple of weeks, and then we can begin a debate about who contributed most to turning Virginia blue in 2008: Brian or Creigh or who knows, it might be someone else (Feld for Governor?  Waldo for Lt. Governor? Brian Patton for Attorney General?)

Ha!  Maybe in 2013!

Frankly, I am really turned off by the negativity towards Brian Moran by certain Deeds supporters, and I say this as someone who very much likes both Moran and Deeds.  Why on earth are we even getting into a fight over 2009 now, anyway?  Are people bored or something?   Hello, but last time I checked, we've got a US Senate seat to win, Congressional seats to pick up, not to mention the White House.  That isn't enough, we have to start slugging it out over the great Moran-Deeds Showdown of 2009?  No thanks.

When one of them endorses Leslie Byrne.

n/t

:-)

in your mind they have no future?

RK is pretty obviously in favor of Byrne over Connolly in this years congressional primary (although there might be the occasional Denneny supporter).  If the membership is overwhelmingly in favor of one candidate like, oh, I don't know, in the 2006 senate primary, it will actively push for that person.

That said, RK membership does not seem to overwhelmingly favor either candidate, so for now, let's either lay off Deeds and Moran or give them both a hard time.

That said, I'm a Deeds supporter.

THAT said, was "carpetbagging" ever used as an attack against 3 of our 4 past governors?  Allen, Warner, and Kaine were all born and raised far from Virginia.

THAT SAID, I think Moran is a VERY weak candidate.  Let's be honest: Virginia is being very kind to its Northern citizens helping elect Democrats.  Kaine did fairly well not only because he followed Warner, but because he was a Richmond-area candidate.  Warner, as a deep deep Northern Virginian, probably wouldn't have succeeded had his predecessor not screwed up so royally.  Remember: when Warner was elected, Virginia had 2 Republican governors in a row, 2 Republican Senators, and a strongly Republican House of Delegates and Senate.  He was the first of our victories.  Coming off 2 Democratic Governors, I don't think independents outside Northern Virginia will appreciate an Alexandria Democrat as governor.

Also, as a resident of Northern Virginia who would love to see Moran and Deeds as governor equally (Deeds' electability tips me to his favor), I don't think Moran would do that well in Northern Virginia, a must for statewide Democrats.  I have many many independent AND Democrat friends who, when they think of Moran, jump straight to Jim Moran, of whom they have a very negative image (I don't by the way - I heard him talk at a JJ once - makes me happy a man that liberal is in Congress).  A lot of Northern Virginians think Jim Moran is too antagonistic, which he probably is.  An independent friend of mine the other day who told me he'd never vote for a Republican for Senate or President again told me he was sad his home got redistricted from the 8th to the 10th because "I was having so much fun voting against Jim Moran every year."  Ouch.

This comment is getting way too long.  Sum up: Moran isn't electable ANYWHERE (except on my absentee ballot where I'll vote for the Democratic nominee), I'm all for free posting on this blog, but yeah, James, take it easy for now.

It's perfectly appropriate to discuss and debate a contested primary race for 2008.  The primary for the U.S. House races in in mid-June, so partisans of Byrne, Connelly, and Denneny should be debating this matchup.  This goes for any other contested primaries for 2008.

I just object to a bunch of negative campaigning for 2009.  I say 2009 can wait until after November 4, 2008.

Everybody look at your calendars. It's January 3, 2008. I'm writing this after freezing my ass off here in Derry, New Hampshire (temps tonight: 25 to 0 degrees) bringing the art of the sign war to the snow for John Edwards. We have a country to take back this year, and we care about 2009? Give me a break. I'm focused on this November-our country is being destroyed from within, and 2009 is the last thing on my mind.

Tonight are the Iowa Caucuses. In November, our country is at stake.

I'm biased here. I interned for Brian last summer. I'm a big fan of both Brian and Creigh for what they've done for progressives--but you can't possibly be issuing negative spin so early.

The IOWA CAUCSES are tonight. Who cares?!

Everyone knows that Brian and Creigh wanted to run for governor in 2009. How is that a sign of weakness? He's filing papers tomorrow--and if anyone would bother to RTFA, he is making his official big kickoff (that is, the one for the cameras) after the GA session.

Filing papers is a yawn on my scale of excitement. Those two have been announcing for years now.

Lay off with the vomit-inducing spin. Creigh is a great State Senator, but it's too early for us to be eating our own, and I hope that his surrogates feel the same. I'd write more, but I've got more 2008-related work to do that keeps me too busy from caring about 2009.

Except for the Iowa caucuses bit.  No one should care about that, either :)

Stay warm: wear a hat.

I saw Brian In November 07 for the 1st time when he was campaigning in my area for the Democrats for the House of Delegates. I did not get a chance to introduce myself to him, but watching him interact with the people in the crowd impressed me. He, Mark Warner, Ward Armstrong and Even Jim Webb Look like a good Team. I was not impressed with Creed Deeds.I felt that Eric Fergerson was going to Richmond but some how the Republican Candidate pulled it off.

If i had to select today I say Moran hands down. He cares for Virginia. I look forward to his announcement.  08 is going to rock when Warner kicks Gilmore around. But don't get me wrong I am not a Party person, I go for the person and what that person can do for me.... So that D or R don't mean much to me.