The GOP also voted to punish Florida. Your argument is that Flordia Dems are so angered by being punished by their national party that they'll become Florida Republicans, who were just punished by their national party?

So dems are twice as mad.  They aren't becoming Republicans, they are becoming independents.

Independents aren't as loyal.  They could swing towards a moderate Republican or independent.  Huge risk Democrats are taking here.

I'm not sure that he would cross the 30% threshold to be competitive, but if he runs, I think he could very well play spoiler for Democrats in Florida.  Perhaps some of the movement in Florida is in anticipation of an independent run by him.

Interesting observation about the impact of the DNC's moves against Florida.

I will say that even without Florida the Dems have a legitimate shot at picking up electoral votes elsewhere this year (Ohio, Virginia -- maybe even Indiana).  I worry though that Bloomberg could have an impact in Democratic-leaning states such as Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Minnesota.  Obviously it would be best to have Florida as a viable option for a Democratic pick-up in 2008.

That should counter many of the Bloomberg votes.

My guess is that we are going to have a full field this year.  At least two major (5% or more) independent or third party candidates.

A Bloomberg run, without any other right leaning third party contender to counter, would IMHO put a Republican into the White House.

Apparently, Michigan and Florida were especially egregious in their pursuit of holding an early primary.  Something had to be done.

I recommend  that we not slander any candidate, including Huckabee.  Nor should we express the hope that he will say something racist.   He has a surprisingly good record on safety net issues.  He actually is a compassionate conservative.  He may hold some eccentric views, but he is not stupid and he is not rude.  Unlike George Allen,  I believe that he does possess humanity and concern for people.  It does seem that part of the primary process for the Republicans is to compete for the title of Meanest Guy Out There.  At least, Huckabee is something of a break on that tendency.

I could care less about Huckabee.  You missed my point entirely.

The point I made was that Democrats are going to lose votes in Florida because we are shut out of the primary.  

My hope in Florida is that Huckabee wins the Republican primary, and he likes calling people Macacas.  We need the curse of George Allen at this point.

Obviously I wasn't seriously hoping Huckabee would say that.  I guess sarcasm isn't as obvious to everyone.  I was using that to demonstrate that Republicans would need to step on a HUGE political landmine in order to carry Florida.

I'll repeat it one more time.  My point is that it will be very difficult for Democrats to carry Florida because of the primary and our delegates not being counted.

Huckabee rejects science, refused to let the state pay for termination of a pregnancy caused by rape, and thought that we ought to quarantine people with AIDS.

But he's not rude!  Yay.

Please.  There are decent Republicans out there.  Huckabee is not one of them.

Huckabee's nuts.

You might as well say they are all nuts.  You can say that, but it isn't necessary.  We have our own campaign to worry about.

We should concentrate on trying to get as many people as possible to vote Democratic.

I do support a woman's right to choose and I do not agree with Republicans on virtually anything, except when they disagree with Bush......... something they have been doing more lately.

You can focus on one or two issues if you want to.  I am going to argue that we focus on winning in November.

You are full of ----

Huckabee supports a safety net.  He raised taxes to spend money on social programs.

In this f------ he is a moderate.  What election are you paying attention to anyway?  Are you watching the History channel?

with such a clearly thought out and positive approach, you just can't be wrong!  

Florida violated the rules.  And you can't break the rules without consequences.  If there were no consequences, then everybody would fight to be at the front of the line.  If Florida and Michigan weren't punished, then what would prevent say California the most populous state from moving its primary to the front of the line?  Florida created chaos and it had to be punished.  If Florida Democrats are mad at somebody, they should be mad at their own state party and state government.  That would be rational.

The primary process is definitely in need of much work.  But it was not Florida's job to take it upon themselves to fix a perceived wrong.  The Democratic Party covers all 50 states of which Florida is only one.  For the great amount of audacity and hubris Florida displayed, they very much deserve their punishment.

Last, how do you know that people are changing their affiliation because of this one thing?  And if it is this one thing, that is truly sad.  I would think that most people are Democrats because of shared values with the party.  I would think that bond would be stronger than anger of some perceived slight.

Now, Republicans are likely to win Florida.  Punishing us hurts all Democrats.  Lets see how that works out in 2008.  And if it goes badly for us, then tell me that we still needed to be punished.

In 1992, Bill Clinton didn't carry Florida and he still won.  There are other electoral possibilities.  I am sorry but the world does not revolve around the state of Florida.

And if Democrats in Florida bolt over this or sit this one out, shame on them.  I doubt this is going to have any affect on unaffiliated voters.  And the Democratic nominee will have plenty of money and opportunity to win over the state.  Also, I doubt voters in Florida care about this.  I would need some facts that support the assertion that not having votes at the Democratic convention is going to turn the state red.  If you are an unaffiliated voter as most are, why would you care?  

This one small thing does not hand the state of Florida over to Republicans.  More likely Republican disenfranchising tactics will win them the state once again.

"the world does not revolve around the state of Florida"

That's just crazy talk ;-)

In hindsite it was a bad idea to change our primary.  But it also wasn't a very good idea for the DNC to take such draconian measures.

Tell me what legislation was introduced in Congress last year or the years prior to solve the problem with the primaries?  Until you can do that, you can't say that Republicans and Democrats alike have done anything to fix the system.  Punishing Florida isn't going to solve this problem.

Congress doesn't govern party primaries.  The DNC and RNC do.  Yes, both parties need to fix there primaries.  And maybe they will get around to that before 2012.  But they talked and talked about fixing it before 2008 and did nothing.  But maybe Florida will convince them to finally do something about it.

is the shared values of Democrats, I sometimes think.

It is not a done deal that Democrats will take the White House in '08, or even continue to hold Congress by whatever margin. But the apparent implosion of Bushism encourages many egos to imagine that "this is a Democratic year," and so they figure on getting theirs any way they can, at loooong last. Hence the plethora of candidates, the frantic desire to put onesself forward early on since the final results are supposedly a foregone conclusion... and the curious lengthy primary season this election cycle, not to mention the horrendous amounts of "early" money being gobbled up and dispensed, so that big money makes one a front-runner (according to the press).

It would not surprise me if it turns out that an unexpected independent like Bloomberg ends up being elected, and the House returns to Republican dominance, given the strange ability of Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot.