Thoughts on religion and politics

By: teacherken
Published On: 12/7/2007 11:37:55 PM

crossposted from dailykos after chatting with Lowell this evening at a Judy Feder event

Romney's speech  has led to much bloviation.  I watched Chris Matthews say how it was the best speech of this political season, althouh eventually he acknowledged that there were some problem areas.  David Brooks has written a somewhat sensible column.  The Boston Globe has an editorial entitled Romney on bended knee in which they note

Romney got applause when he criticized those who would supplant a faith-centered nation with "the religion of secularism." But given the amount of violence and intolerance that various religions have generated throughout history, it is unwise to insist that religious belief is a prerequisite for freedom.
 I'm not sure that an ordinary school teacher aka blogger has much to add to the discussion, but as this is a question that concerns me, I will offer a few thoughts below the fold.
Let me set the context in which I wish to address this.  First, I have been fascinated by religion for much of my life, and have often described my own life as an inchoate and constant search for meaning.  In the process of my 61+ years I was raised as a non-practicing Reform Jew who had his Bar Mitzvah on his 13th birthday; attended Quaker Meeting while on active duty in the Marines in the 1960's without officially joining; was baptized as an Episcopalian in the middle 70's, spending the summer in an Episcopal Benedictine monastery; became an Orthodox Christian (like Russian or Greek) for 14 years, including directing choir, serving in lay leadership positions at parish, diocesan and national levels, and made repeated trips to monasteries here and in Greece, and had the abbot of a monstaery on Mount Athos serge as my personal spiritual father for a decade; returned to Judaism first as an Orthodox Jew then as a Conservative Jew, for a total of perhaps a decade; and finally completed a journey that began as a freshman in College in 1963 when I joined the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), committing in the Fall of 2002 and officially enrolled as a member in early 2003.  Along the way I picked up a Masters from a Roman Catholic Seminary, taught comparative religions and ethics to adults in a church, and teens first in a synagogue and then in a public high school.  I have read extensively in religious traditions which I have never joined, and have found myself influenced by the poetry of several traditions, especially that of the Sufi Rumi, and have seen my own meditation practices and attitudes towards life strongly influenced by a number of Buddhist teachers.

I also teach government, with an especial reverence (the word is used deliberately) for the ideas of separation of church and state, whether it is reference to Article Vi and the "no religious test" statement, the First Amendment's two clauses on religion (no establishment and free exercise), Washington's letter to the Jewish Congregation in Newport, or Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists from which the term "wall of separation" is obtained.  

And perhaps it is because my own religious association has, with the exception of the Episcopal Church, always been with minorities that I am sensitive to aspects of religious discrimination.

My AP government students are now studying Congress.  Yesterday we explored the demographics of who becomes a Member or Senator.  It is interesting to look at the religious background.   In the entire history of our nation there has been one Hindu, one Muslim (Keith Ellison), two Buddhists (Maizie Hirono and Hank Johnson).  There is only one acknowledged atheist (Pete Stark).  The percentage of Jews in the Senate is 6 times their percentage in the US Population.  We have had four Arabs in the US Senate, but all have been Christians:  Abdnor and Abourezk of SD, Mitchell of ME, and Sununu of NH.  we discussed what if any conclusions we might draw about religion and politics.  I will not share all of their comments, but since a number of my students - regardless of the family's commitment - are themselves fairly hostile to or apathetic about religion, there were more than a few who expressed concern about the amount of religious rhetoric in American politics.  And finally, personally, I have been thinking about this subject because there is a candidate for Congress in Virginia who has been making an overt outreach to people one might describe as progressive evangelicals - this is a potential candidate against Virgil Goode, although he will have a primary opponent.  I have been asked what I think about him, and whether I might be willing to talk with him and then write about what he is doing.

That seems like a long setting of the context.  I apologize, because I think it is necessary for the few insights or observations I might now offer.

I have no problem with a person having his or her life defined by his sense of faith,  I know many people whose commitment to service to others, including in the political arena, is fueled precisely by how faith drives their life.   I think it is good that a person has a core which, if they are willing, they can explain how it influences them.

And while it does not make me especially comfortable, as individual voters we each have the right to apply any test we desire, including a religious test, in determining for or against whom we will cast our votes.    In fact, there is no real obstacle to a religious leader saying to those for whom s/he has pastoral responsibility that a particular candidate either should or should not receive the votes of the followers, although at that moment any exemption from taxation perhaps should be lifted:  there is freedom from taxation so long as the religious body is providing for general well-being, and that exemption perhaps exists even though the body might advocate on policy, but explicit instructions about voting seem to me to cross the line.  In a sense this parallels current law about the magic words in political advertising, whether it constitutes an inkind contribution to a political campaign.

We were at the time of our founding, that is, during the period between 1775 when the American Revolution began in Massachusetts and the ratification of the Bill of Rights in December of 1791, already a diverse nation.  One reason we did not move in the direction of an established religion was that such a move would have split the nation, at least along regional grounds:  in New England the established churches were the Congregational Churches descended from the Puritans while in Virginia it was the Anglican Church.  Some of the Middle Colonies like New York and Pennsylvania were already so diverse that no real religious establishment was possible.  Yes, it is true that many states had religious tests, some maintaining them for many years.  But already the direction was away from even informal religious tests, although this continued to be a struggle for many years:  after all, one reason for the establishment of Catholic schools was that the public schools often had an explicit Protestan orientation.  

While the largest religion in the US is the Roman Catholic church, its adherents represent less than 1/4 of our population.  The second largest denomination is the Southern Baptist Convention, but they have less than 10% of the population nationally, even if they may be an overwhelming majority in some communities below the Mason-Dixon line.  Our religious makeup has changed over the years.  The Episcopal Church may have produced the greatest number of Presidents but now numbers less than 1% of our population, and by comparison the Mormons and Jews are each about 2%, and it is possible that by now there are even more Muslims than that.  

Even if we were to paint broadly and say the vast majority of Americans are Christians, not all denominations are willing to give that acknowledgment of a shared basis (followers of jesus) to other denomination.  It is not merely that some Catholics still hold to the Feeneyite assertion that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation ( an ancient doctrine that seems to be gaining strength again, especially under the current Pope);  different sects are not sure what acknowledgement they will make of one another, whether 7th Day Adventists, or Unification Church members, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or Mormons should be included in the broader definition of Christian. And there are some which would be willing to label Catholics as other than Christian.  And many have no idea what to make of the Eastern Churches, whether Orthodox or Oriental ( and the two groups acknowledge one another but are still split by doctrinal differences dating back to the 4th Century of the Common Era).

We are actually fairly ignorant about religion as a nation.  Thus it becomes easy for some to demagogue on religion.  That is a scary proposition, because once that begins, we can never be sure where it will stop.   It is not just the Ann Coulters who represent a problem on this, generals who say while in uniform that their own god is a bigger or more real god than those who follow Islam.  And the danger of even taking the first step, of asserting that freeomd requires religion and religion requires freedom, as was asserted by Romney in what I thought was a frighteningly ignorant and dangerous speech, opens the door to all kinds of problems.

In 1940 the Supreme Court ruled 8-1 that Jehovah's Witnesses, who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance because they viewed it as a violation of the Commandment against graven images, could be expelled from public schools, the nation saw a rash of burning of Kingdom Halls, the churches of the Witnesses - and here I note that one of the most famous of those incidents took place at Kennebunk, Maine.  We have seen Jewish synagogues and temples bombed during the Civil Rights era in the South.  More recently we have seen mosques desecrated, and efforts made to prevent additional mosques from being built to serve the increasing population of Muslims in this nation.  Yet for all of this, the discrimination and hostility towards those who openly admit their own lack of religious commitment, or even opposition to religions, may be even greater.  And we have seen oft seen this discussed on dailykos.  Unfortunately at times the hostility of some towards all religion has been as intolerant as that of some religious types towards non-religion or towards religions other than those they are willing to accept.

A person who seeks to run for high political office should not be dividing us up, pitting one group against another.  It is clearly no longer acceptable to do this on the basis of gender or of the color of our skins.  It also should not be acceptable on the basis of our orientation and commitment to or against religion, whether of specific religious loyalty or even in the broadest sense of being religious or not.  In that sense what Romney said yesterday was very dangerous, and he should be challenged on it.  The theology of his faith is of no matter provided his commitment is to the Constitution he will swear or affirm to uphold, and it is appropriate for him to make that clear. ut to pander to those who insist on an unofficial religious test before they will commit to support is to reject the rest of us who do not ascribe to such an approach, whether because it is not our own faith orientation, and I remind people that the evangelical types to whom Romney is appealing are a minority even among Republican voters) or as in  my own case view it as contradictory to the principles upon which this nation is built.

The next step would be imposition by law of things one believes because of one's religion.  We have seen how devastating this can become of our political discourse in the arguments over abortion.  Public policy should be justified on the basis of arguments that are not ultimately rooted in one's religious beliefs.  It is perfectly proper to advocate for one's strong beliefs, but one must be able to find a basis other than one's religious faith for such a policy lest one be moving in the direction of imposing a religious regime upon a nation diverse in its religious orientation, a diversity which includes as full participants those who deny the existence of  deity or oppose the idea of a organized religion.  

I cannot say that Romney's speech disqualified him in my mind as a potential president, because I had already reached the conclusion that there was no rationale for his running beyond his own ego.  I will say that those in the press who failed to note the danger of his division between those with religion and those without have in my mind disqualified themselves as competent to attempt to explain politics and government:  if they do not understand the importance of that statement, they truly do not understand the nature of what this nation has been and has to be if we are not to tear ourselves apart.


Comments



a couple of comment about the diary (teacherken - 12/7/2007 11:39:57 PM)
1) It was on recommended list at dailykos for a number of hours

2) it has been cross-posted also at Street Prophetcs

3) the dailykos version has, according to technorati, already been linked to and quoted by several other blogs.

I think it is a decent piece, and perhaps will provoke something, perhaps not.  But I decided I would share it here, and given the prominence of the speech by Romney, decided I really should frontpage it.

Peace.



Some very good thoughts (Matusleo - 12/8/2007 12:19:43 AM)
I haven't had time this week to view Romney's speech, so I don't know all the details about what this post relates to.

However, I would like to point one thing out, regarding the bit about freedom needing religion.  Whether or not that is true, I'm not going to get into.  However, I recall that when Communism fell, the people of Poland used as their rallying cry, "We Want God!".

Take that for what it is, a people persecuted by an atheist regime, reaching for a freedom long denied them.  Persecuting religion never, ever works in the long run.

But you are certainly right, it is foolhardy to think that people aren't going to use religion to judge candidates.  And why shouldn't they?  If a person's religion tells us something about them, isn't that good for us to know and discern?

Matusleo
Ut Prosim



Authoritarianism versus pluralism (JPTERP - 12/8/2007 2:08:44 AM)
I had an interesting talk with a friend's spouse about this topic over the Thanksgiving holiday.  She was raised in former East Germany in a protestant family.  Her take was that being a member of a church during the Communist era represented an act of rebellion.  It wasn't just piety or belief in religion that attracted people to the church in her case (Poland likely has some differences) -- it was very much a political act -- a low-grade act of rebellion against a political system that denied individual liberties, and which offered only a very narrow space for private actions.

The people who were affiliated with an organized religion were basically political outsiders who had no ability to advance within the existing political structures.  The very act of being affiliated with a church -- or even being in a family that was affiliated with a church -- limited chances for advancement within the society (as a side note she is now married to my friend who is a devout secular humanist, who also happens to be an American of Iraqi descent -- quite a combination -- only in America).  

It's important to point out though that both East and West Germany were very much secular states (unified Germany is also very much a secular state -- similar to the rest of Western Europe).  In other words, a belief in God is not a pre-requisite for a democratic society.  On the other hand, a set of beliefs, and political structures which allow dissent and differing viewpoints ARE a pre-requisite for a Democratic society.  

Too the extent that a personal belief system allows dissent and space for disagreement, that personal belief system will be compatible with a democratic system of government.  Too the extent that a personal belief system denies this space for reasoned disagreement, it will be better suited to a system that is undemocratic.  While Marxism may be viewed as a secular belief system, the way that it actually functioned in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe was for all practical purposes as a very rigid and dogmatic state religion.  I think this needs to be noted as well.



Thanks (Evan M - 12/8/2007 12:31:24 AM)
teacherken,

Thanks for posting it here. I didn't see it on kos, but am linking to it here.

As ever, your writing and analysis is comprehensive, informed and compelling.  



Great post (PM - 12/8/2007 11:54:29 AM)
Outstanding diary, Teacherken.  And great comments, too.

I think Romney (among other mistakes) confuses religious identity with spiritual nature.  

We all know people who belong to churches who don't seem to have much of a spiritual dimension, who perhaps have never read any sacred texts or books discussing theology, or people who seem not to be able to apply the doctrines they say they believe in to real life.

Then there are people who do not attend church, identify with no particular religion, but are intensely spiritual (and may in fact read a lot about religion).  Indeed, the persons described in the preceding paragraph may be one reason others run from particular churches.

And there are lots of different types of people in between.

As for democracy needing religion, one might note that many totalitarian governments have flourished in highly religious countries, and in some cases there has been a firm partnership between the totalitarian leaders and religious leaders.  This is not ancient history, but part of what happened during the rise of totalitarian governments in the 20th century.   (I am not saying the religions were corrupt, just that bad people clothed themselves in the mantle of a particular religion.)  There also is a long list of dictators who, at least publicly, have espoused belief in mainstream religions.

By contrast, as membership in organized religions decreases drastically across Europe, democratic institutions are flourishing and conflicts minimized.   That does not mean Europeans are becoming less spiritual -- just less interested in a particular type of spirituality.

The Supreme Court in its 1961 Torasco case ruled on the issue of whether a notary could be denied a commission because he would not declare his belief in God, as required by the Maryland Constitution.  In holding that he could not, the court said:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/...

We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, 10  and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs. 11

The opinion also noted:

In discussing Article VI in the debate of the North Carolina Convention on the adoption of the Federal Constitution, James Iredell, later a Justice of this Court, said:

     ". . . [I]t is objected that the people of America may, perhaps, choose representatives who have no religion at all, and that pagans and Mahometans may be admitted into offices. But how is it possible to exclude any set of men, without taking away that principle of religious freedom which we ourselves so warmly contend for?"***Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others.

Finally, a minor historical note.  Some have said that Episcopalian is overrepresented among presidents because many who attended St. John's near the White House did so out of convenience, and newsmen and other chroniclers mistook that for membership in a particular denomination.  Given the Deist beliefs of some of our Founding Fathers, it is likely that Deists and Unitarians are overrepresented.  (Where does someone put John Adams, quoted by Romney, who professed Christian beliefs but railed repeatedly against how organized religion had corrupted the message?)



History of democracies . . . (JPTERP - 12/8/2007 3:57:12 PM)
In reference to "democracy needing religion" . . . even beyond the U.S. example we can't avoid the history of Ancient Greece and Rome.  Both of these representative governments tolerated unqualified pantheism -- and varieties of secularism.  Both of these representative governments endured for the better part of a few centuries.  It would have been great for Romney to have given a "shout out" to the pantheists out in the audience at College Station.  Understandably he stuck to much safer territory.

Switzerland, which is the longest standing democracy in the West has no official state religion.  Amazingly the democracy there endures even though there are essentially three very distinct peoples with their own languages and cultures.  The loose EU confederation today is most decidedly not based on any particular established religious world view (at its core the governmental apparatus would best be called "secular humanist").  

These are just a few examples that I am pulling of the top of my head.  In other words, Romney is either ignorant of history, or more likely he was misrepresenting history in order to pander to an audience and political base which is not exactly renowned for its critical thinking skills.



To those who think this is a "Christian" nation . . . (PM - 12/8/2007 5:22:55 PM)
I wonder what they think about this activity?  http://www.post-gazette.com/pg...

Police expect no charges in youth group diaper skit
Saturday, December 08, 2007
By Mary Niederberger, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A skit at a local Christian youth group meeting had teenage boys taking off some of their clothes, wearing adult diapers, bibs and bonnets and being spoon-fed by girls as they sat in their laps.***Mr. Wandrisco, in an interview, acknowledged that the Nov. 29 skit had taken place as Ms. Metz described and that the group had also participated at an earlier date in the skit that involved eating chocolate pudding out of diapers.***Lt. Truver said police found nothing criminal in connection with the skit.

"Her 14-year-old son told us he participated in an activity completely voluntary in nature and that he had fun with it and that there was no coercion and our position is that while the activities may be somewhat unorthodox depending on your perception, there's nothing to indicate that any crime occurred," he said.

Ms. Metz said she was disappointed with the police response, but encouraged that the district attorney would review the information.

Terry Swenson, national vice president of communications for Young Life, said that skits that involve teens dressing like an infant are among those used by the organization, which has existed for 60 years.

LOL.  As they say, different strokes for different folks.  Darn.  I definitely had the wrong type of religious education in my youth.



Great diary as always. (Lowell - 12/8/2007 9:02:53 PM)
Fascinating...I always learn something when I read your writings.  Thanks!


Mike Huckabee's bizarre views (Lowell - 12/8/2007 10:30:00 PM)
Speaking of Republicans and religious fundamentalism, check this out.


Romney "Explains" His Freedom Needs Religion Speech (PM - 12/9/2007 11:45:27 AM)
Andrew Romano writes for Newsweek about Romney trying to explain his freedom needs religion comment.

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/b...


"I'm wondering why you didn't mention non-religious people in your speech yesterday, number one, and also what you meant by 'freedom requires religion'?" asked a reporter.

An important point--but Romney deflected. "I'm paraphrasing something that's been said both by John Adams and George Washington," he said. "Which is that, in their view, for a nation like ours to be great and to thrive... that our Constitution was written for a people of faith and religion. It's a very extraordinary element and foundation for our nation. I believe that's the case."

Unsatisfied, another reporter pounced. "Do you think an atheist or non-believer or non-spiritual person can't therefore be a free person?" he asked.

"Of course not," Romney responded. "That's not what I said."

"But you said 'freedom requires religion'?"

"I'm talking about the nation," Romney snapped. Next question.

So, if anyone can 'splain that .....



Romney compared to JFK (Quizzical - 12/9/2007 3:25:24 PM)
CSPAN had Mitt Romney's speech broadcast back to back with a rebroadcast of JFK's.  One big difference:  JFK gave his speech to an audience and after the speech the audience was allowed to ask JFK questions.  Some of the questioning was quite pointed.  JFK was able to hold his own, and to give answers that made sense.  In contrast, Romney took no questions after the speech, at least as broadcast.  In fact, the audience was never shown, so I assume it was the typical Republican hand-picked and screened audience -- probably mostly comprised of his own campaign workers and supporters.  

Substantively, JFK was clear that he believed in the separation of church and state, and that he would not take direction of any kind from the Catholic church.

Likewise, Romney said he would not allow his church to tell him what to do, but on the other hand he gave equal emphasis to his intention that his decisions would "be informed by his faith."  I don't really know what that means, in concrete terms.  Maybe it just means that when he makes a really big decision, he will pray for guidance.  On the other hand, when the issue is something novel, like the bioethics of stem cell research, I don't know how you can be informed by your faith while at the same time not being influenced by what your church is saying about it.        



Mitt Romney is certainly no JFK (Lowell - 12/9/2007 3:32:16 PM)


"It's not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me, but what kind of America I believe in.  I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute."  -- JFK



Another quote. (Lowell - 12/9/2007 3:34:39 PM)
"It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that led to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom."


It's amazing how much better a speech (Lowell - 12/9/2007 3:38:19 PM)
this is compared to Romney's.  In general, it seems like the quality of our leaders' public speaking has really gone down the drain since 1960.  I mean, how can the utterly inarticulate George W. Bush be president?


JFK on the right to attend OR NOT ATTEND the church of one's choice (jsrutstein - 12/9/2007 3:56:12 PM)
I think it's around 3:45 of the speech.  It's amazing JFK could be so accepting of the non-religious in 1960, with the threat of godless communism that he mentioned at the outset of his speech, with the Supreme Court having yet to banish prayer in public schools, and not long after the very words "under god" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance.  It's sad that late in 2007, Romney couldn't summon that same courage.


Exactly (Lowell - 12/9/2007 3:58:19 PM)
It's amazing how much times, and leaders, have changed. Not for the better, either.