I hate to say I told you so, but [updated]

By: teacherken
Published On: 11/30/2007 8:17:06 PM

Crossposted from dailykos - it was updated there before being posted here

after watching and listening to the Republican debate this week, I want to revisit an issue on which I took some flak before.   After the Virginia elections I commented in a number of places, including one of my own diaries, that I expected we should expect to continue to see the Republicans attack on immigration.  In Some good news from Virginia, written on election night, I noted

Now the bad news.   It looks like the attacks on illegal immigration had some salience, especially in Prince William County.   Thus I expect to see Republicans across the country start trying to use this as a weapon.
 And in comments on that thread and elsewhere I pointed out that things like the races in Prince William County and a few other places would give some Republicans hope that the issue of immigration could still serve as a magic bullet.
Two days after the election Markos took the position that using immigration had failed.   In his front page story Demonizing immigration didn't do the trick he quoted Mort Kondracke and argued that demonizing immigrants would be harmful to the Republicans.

This was on top of previous stories, such as that on the day after the election entitled Yup, immigration not the GOP's savior in which he quoted from Amy Gardner's front page Washington Post story entitled In the Ballot Booths, No Fixation on Immigration, and his election evening diary entitled Beaners in which he argued that the Virginia Republicans, despite basing a large part of their campaign on immigration, "got crushed."  In fairness, he updated that diary to point at the one I wrote and one by Andrew C. White entitled We lost in Stephentown because we both reported some evidence of the effects of the anti-immigration approach.

Let me reiterate what my concern was.   It was not that Corey Stewart won reelection as County Board Chair in Prince William County running almost solely on the issue of immigration.  It was that he increased his percentage margin over Sharon Panjak from what it had been in the special election when he took office.  I also saw what I thought was some evidence of the effect on Jay Donahue's attempt to unseat Rust in Herndon, the original ground zero in Virginia on immigration, and some possible spill over in the Senate race in Stafford and further south that Al Pollard narrowly lost.

I never argued that the anti-immmigrant approach was necessarily going to be all that effective.  Rather, I thought that there was enough success at which some Republicans could point that it would continue to be used as a cudgel, beating up on those who could be considered "other"  - because the Republicans had no other arrows in their campaign quiver.

Skip forward to the CNN YouTube debate.  Not only did we have the disgusting exchange between Giuliani and Romney on who presided over more sanctuaries, thereby attempting to turn a noble word into a pejorative, we had Tancredo bragging that everyone was trying to out-Tancredo Tancredo, we had Duncan Hunter bragging about his wall.

I hate to say I told you so. . .   actually, no I don't. Unless and until we see a massive rejection of this approach, some Republicans will continue to use it.  After all, Corey Stewart is making noises about the statewide Virginia Republican party, which effectively is now a toxic waste dump.   While he claims he is concerned about other issues, realistically does anyone doubt that given what he will view as his own success that one issue he will continue to push is that of immigration?  And today a Court rejected a law suit against the Prince William Police being able, solely on suspicion, to demand proof of immigration status from people - the judge said those suing had not demonstrated they had suffered any harm and thus lacked standing to sue (I am writing about this from a brief report on the radio as I drove home this evening).  And there are rumors now that Stewart might assay an attempt for a nomination for statewide office (most probably Lt. Governor, since George Allen and several others are positioning themselves to figh it out for the top spot).

While I think in general the overall positions of the Republican field are pretty noxious, I do think McCain and Huckabee deserve some credit for the positions they took on the issue, given the nature of the most activist segment of the Republican base.  It is unfortunate that even as he was legitimately defending the treatment of illegals in NYC while he was mayor Giuliani had to do a "so's your old man" routine on Romney on the issue of sanctuary - that diminished the real effect commenting about what he had done in the past could have had on the debate.   Think of it:  if 3 of the top four Republicans had been willing to reject the demagoguery associated with this issue, we might have had some hope that it would not continue to poison our political discourse, and we might be able to talk about meaningful solutions to the real problems we have.

We will unfortunately continue to have to deal with the issue.  It is not that I think that Republicans will win many races on this issue, but in some cases it might make a difference.  But the discussions about it will suck oxygen away from discussion of other more important, more salient issues.  Were those other issues - health care, bankruptcy, foreclosures due to subprime mortgages, education, etc - more prevalent, the Republicans would be in far deeper trouble than they already are.

They may not WIN on immigration, but there is some evidence that by using it as a distraction they might be able to lessen the otherwise overwhelming losses which currently loom on the horizon for next year.

I do not advocate our becoming Republican-lite, on this or any other issue.  That was never the intent of my remarks, on election night or subsequently.  I thought what I was doing was pointing out that we need to be prepared for this issue continuing to be part of the political discourse, and that we need to turn it back against those who use it, as I think was actually done somewhat effectively by Huckabee, although I would not make such large distinctions between adults and children as he did.   There is still the danger that the focus will become that these illegals are forcing wages down for good "American" workers -  and that might be used as an attempted wedge into the African-American community.

We should always be prepared, to anticipate what our opponents might do, so that we are not surprised.  

Peace.

UPDATE I just flipped on ABC Evening News, in time to catch a story about a day laborer from Honduras working on a job in Princeton NJ who got mauled by the homeowners' dog.  The laborer won a quarter million settlement, and the dog has been ordered put down (this part on appeal), but meanwhile it has turned into a nasty thing on immigration, because the day laborer is an illegal.  And we have this as news coverage, and Stephanopoulos led into the story with reference to spat among the Republicans on immigration during the debate. . .  


Comments



corssposted on front page at suggestion of Lowell (teacherken - 11/30/2007 8:17:42 PM)
and who am I to argue with the proprietor?

peace.



I'd point out that not only are you a front pager (Lowell - 11/30/2007 8:24:57 PM)
here at RK, you're also an editor.  You certainly don't need my permission...


not a question of permission (teacherken - 11/30/2007 9:00:53 PM)
it was your suggestion that I cross post, and I merely clarified via email that your suggestion meant front page, not merely as a diary

so it was still your suggestion

peace



immigration (pvogel - 11/30/2007 9:12:19 PM)
This issue is a perfect   poison pill for republicans.

It will look like a winning issue, but in the long run, they will get stomped.

the decency of Americans will rise up, and this racism  will get  fixed.

When sucking babies are ripped from the mommas teat, and the momma gets deported for hablaing espanol, you just know that in you heart, you know republicans are evil



The issue will not go away (Teddy - 11/30/2007 9:41:48 PM)
and I agree that Corey Stewart (who must consider himself a royal Stewart since he posts the Scottish banner above his head in photographs of himself) has higher ambitions statewide, intending eventually to position himself as governor.

In the meantime, do not be too sure that decent Americans will rise up against the Republicans against their demagoguery; plenty of perfectly decent citizens in Prince William apparently joined their nuttier neighbors in voting for Stewart. Pandak never responded to his campaign in a convincing manner---- she was much too lawyerly in dealing with a deliberately emotionalized issue.

Democrats take note. Decent citizens will need help in responding appropriately, and encouragement to do so. All the rational spouting of statistics and murmurs about divisiveness, community, and love will not cut it. The response must remind Americans of our noble traditions and the rule of law, the God-given rights of man, etc, etc.... and then go on to pounding home the true statistics which show the falsity of Corey's supposed statistics on crime and the high cost to taxpayers of dealing with immigrants.

Others can remind the inflamed masses that the undocumented (do NOT ever call them illegals, that plays into the hands of Republicans) would not be here if the Republican trade policies had not cremated their own local economies, nor would they have jobs if some rich Republican CEO did not hire them, and no border fence can be built high enough to keep them out until those two factors are dealt with. Punishing the victim is not an adult solution. Using immigrants as a scapegoat will not resolve the economic mess the Republicans have created.



The GOP has there hands on a contrversial issue... (bladerunner - 11/30/2007 11:14:17 PM)
....no doubt. There are a lot of dems out there, including myself that think we should stop LETTING illegal immigrants walk or get smuglled into the country. If you want to go through the legal way, like a lot of immigrants do--no problemo. I have seen it up close and in person and our schools, hospitals are just two places where the quality is going down. Let's face it, the one's coming here are not rocket scientists. It's a complicated issue, and I am not advocating sending the ILLEGAL immigrants that are here back, but if our system is overloaded we're all going down. Much the same way if you put too many in a life boat it'll sink. There's comes a point where you have to draw the line and say, "No Mas".

That being said, I do believe down the road our country is going to becoming more of mixing bowl of different cultures than it already is, and I have NO problem with that. I just think we have to keep some semblance of order otherwise we'll have caos. I think it's okay to have these views and be a democrat. And I know a lot of Dems and Independents have this view--and should not be ignored or thought of as hateful mean people.  



The legal process is not easy (tx2vadem - 12/1/2007 4:21:19 PM)
The U.S. allows only so many people entry legally every year.  There are, for example, a fixed set of H-1B visas that are all gone before the fiscal year even begins.  And you must have seen the stories about the numerous Iraqis that have tried to gain entry to the US after helping us out only to be denied entry.  And they will likely be killed for aiding us.  So, I can't imagine there is a good chance if you are an unskilled laborer hoping to improve the quality of life of your impoverished family that you can get in legally to the U.S.


Don't underestimate this issue (The Grey Havens - 12/1/2007 12:20:51 AM)
This is pure distraction.

It's designed to take the pressure off of Republicans who are now broadly hated because of Bush, Iraq, Katrina, Minneapolis, the Credit Crunch, obstructionism, wiretapping, gonzalez, cheney... the whole list

They've created a boogeyman out of whole cloth. Republicans win every time A Democrat engages in this issue without pointing out the disaster that Republicanism means for America and how Democratic Values and Vision are the way out.

The immigration issue is a farce, and it's a farce in which every single Democrat seeking the Presidential nomination has chosen to take part.

WAKE UP YOU DEMOCRATS!!!!  YOU'RE BEING PLAYED FOR SUCKERS YET AGAIN!!!!



I agree (Teddy - 12/1/2007 12:34:04 AM)


Can you just ignore it? (tx2vadem - 12/1/2007 4:29:25 PM)
I don't think so.  It plays upon people's economic insecurity.  It is ultimately a scapegoat; thus, it is a winning formula for Republicans.  You have to address their argument though.  Otherwise, they are able to convince people of a false conclusion.


Agreed. (Lowell - 12/1/2007 4:38:08 PM)
You definitely can NOT cede the playing field to the Republicans on this or any other issue.


immigration (pvogel - 12/1/2007 1:04:47 AM)
I  advocate the religious view. That is all.
12 million illegals,   you really think we will stomache the creation of camps to house them while waiting for the transportation back where they came from?

Lets get back to other reasons to get rid of republicans.

Bush in 2000 said" If you want $2.50 a gallon gas, Gores your man"

They will  brazenly lie , and say anything to retain power.

And 12 million Illegals have 30 million  legal friends, and if 40% vote, thats 12 million extra votes for democrats.



For whatever it's worth (Quizzical - 12/1/2007 6:18:26 PM)
Here's a link to a recently published study of immigration
http://www.cis.org/articles/20...

thanks to bespacific.com



For what it's worth--background on the source (Hugo Estrada - 12/1/2007 7:27:03 PM)
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Center for Immigration Reform, CIS, was founded by John Tanton,

http://www.splcenter.org/intel...

Here is a long article on Jon Tanton and his role on the anti-immigration movement. The title is:
"The Puppeteer
The organized anti-immigration 'movement,' increasingly in bed with racist hate groups, is dominated by one man, John Tanton."

http://www.splcenter.org/intel...



On racist pandering (Hugo Estrada - 12/1/2007 7:41:33 PM)
An important base for the Republican Party is the racist vote. It has been an important part of their strategy since Nixon's "Southern Strategy". The Bush presidency has made this segment even more important.

Let's face it: most of the decent Republicans who are disgusted with racist pandering have left the Republican Party. That means that the weight of the racists left is a lot bigger now.

And racist pandering, which we euphemistically keep calling the "Southern Strategy,"--insulting, when you think about it, to all of the upstanding, decent people from the South--is the one trick that Republicans know that will work.

Racist pandering didn't save Republicans in 2006 or 2007. Rational people would have moved on to another strategy, and some Republicans have been warning that sticking to the racist pandering will backfire on them. They are right.

Racist pandering is not the silver bullet that it has been. It has failed to save the Republican Congress, and it failed to keep Republican the Virginian senate. It will keep failing except in certain pockets throughout the country.

What should Democrats do about this? We should call the strategy on what it is, attacks on immigrants and attacks on ethnic minorities. And create a counter narrative that will accurately show the current economic problems as the result of Republican policies and corruption.